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Who is Countess Elizabeth Bathory Guilty or Innocent?

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Erzsébet Báthory - Elizabeth Bathory

It is fast approaching the 400th anniversary of Erzsebet Bathory's death and in all this time only one side of the story has been told.

In spite of the fact that Her Ladyship's accusers stood to gain substantially from her downfall, only their side of the proceedings is known.

Perhaps it is time for a serious study, bearing in mind that you cannot simply accept a primary source in historical research if that source is written from the standpoint of a highly biased and self-interested individual or group.

Of course, many may prefer the sensationalism of a gory myth.

Myth, rumour and fact?

Sadly, it will never be possible to know the Countess' point of view, it seems that almost nothing remains of her. We cannot know what kind of sickness she suffered from as the term 'epilepsy' was applied to a wide variety of illnesses.

Indeed, in a letter to her husband dated 8th July 1596, Elizabeth speaks of headaches and eye pains. As a migraine sufferer, this sounds familiar and I could well imagine that a servant might have their lips sewn shut if they made a noise when the lady of the house was suffering a migraine.

But all speculation on her illness or her mental state is precisely that, speculation.

There are well-established rumours of her depravity - what evidence is there?

Because her husband (Ferenc Nadasdy, to whom she was betrothed c the age of 11 and married at c 15) was away at war so much, it would have been up to Elizabeth, at a young age, to order the running of the estates, including more than a dozen villages.

The local nobility were responsible for law and order in their domain, doubly so in their household and the punishments meted out would cover a full range of crimes.

Seeing the Countess in context

I recently read Bathory: Memoir of a Countess by A. Mordeaux (see links below) and thoroughly recommend this book.

It is a fictionalised account of the life of the Countess, however, the dramatisation is set in the corect historical context and therefore does as much to help us consider the alleged crimes of the Countess and understand her driving forces as any of the sensationalist 'historical' works which have been produced to date.

In fact, the author's note at the back of the book lays bare what is and, more importantly, is not known about Elizabeth Bathory.

All 'evidence' against her was gathered under torture. The King owed Elizabeth's husband a fortune (described quite literally as a 'king's ransom') borrowed to finance the almost continuous wars (mainly) against the Turks.

At the end of the 16th / beginning of the 17th century, the area where Elizabeth lived was in a state of flux and had suffered years of bloody war. Mercy was not often shown to captives, torture and execution were a daily occurrence, they were the norm in those days.

Even within a household, methods of torture and punishment almost unthinkable 400 years later were routinely employed to keep the serfs in line and horrendous (to us) punishments were carried out in front of the assembled staff, after all, where is the point in making an example of someone unless your revenge is seen to be effective?

Would some of the punished have died? Absolutely. Death may well have been the penalty ultimately paid for theft, not necessarily directly but perhaps within days of the punishment taking place.

Was Elizabeth responsible for the deaths of servants? Quite possibly ... but this would have been nothing unusual among her peers.

Is there any evidence (apart from that provided by vested interests and given by the Lord Palatine, Gyorgy Thurzo) to support any of the rest of the accusations against her?

Testimonies extracted under the severest torture, 'witnesses' whose 'testimony' was given by lesser nobles, third hand hearsay, rumour, gossip and ulterior motives abound in this tale of a woman who never received justice and was never allowed to defend herself or to be defended against the accusation levelled at her.

What do we really know of Elizabeth Bathory?

Historical Times

During Elizabeth's lifetime, there were increasing struggles across Europe between Catholics and Protestants, culminating in the outbreak of the Thirty Years war just four years after her death.

Elizabeth was, of course, a protestant, as was her father, who had built printing presses and, although little is said of what was printed there, it is likely that the print runs included protestant books / pamphlets. Assuming these presses were not idle in Elizabeth's time, this could well have been another reason why the Catholic Hapsburg King would have wanted rid of Elizabeth.

She never did stand trial herself, this would have risked the loss of her lands and shame being brought to both the Bathory and Nadasdy families, and it is possible that a deal was done between Elizabeth's relatives and Count Gyorgy Thurzo, the Lord Palatine, related to Elizabeth through marriage, as it appears her family co-operated with him.

Of course, had Elizabeth stood trial and been found guilty, the King would have been able to wipe out his debt to her, the 'king's ransom' loaned to him by Ferenc Nadasdy during his lifetime.

History is, of course, written by the victors.

The Atlantic Paranormal Society

The module picture is taken from a T-shirt available to purchase with other TAPS apparel from Top Heavy Clothing

TAPS investigated the castle of Cachtice for their Ghost Hunters International programme which was first televised in the UK on the 20th August 2008 on Living2 TV channel.

The investigation took place over one night and covered both the ruins above ground and the catacombs below, all places where ghostly activity has been said to have taken place.

You might have expected, what with all the supposed goings on in centuries past, that there would be plenty of evidence to be gathered in this location but, no, not at all.

In every other location which TAPS have investigated, they normally pick up electro-magnetic activity, orbs or lights, sounds, electronic voice phenomena (EVP) or find a perfectly logical, practical reason for the apparent sounds etc, but here, where the supposedly Bloody Countess carried out at least some of her alleged dastardly deeds and debauchery ... nada, nil, rien, zero, zip, zilch, nothing.

Not one sound, not one sighting of anything at all, a completely unproductive night. Well, perhaps not entirely because, surely, if so many young women were despicably tortured and had their lives cruelly taken from them, there ought to be some trace, some remnant of the trauma still lurking?

Reasons to admire Elizabeth Bathory

1. We may never have met Bram Stoker's Dracula had the author not researched Her Ladyship's supposed crimes.

2. She has delivered us the most controversial and sensational historical argument, second only to Jack the Ripper ... she is a Legend.

3. After 400 years of being maligned, she deserves little love ...

{{{{{{{group hug}}}}}}}

Wolf's Teeth

There seems to have been some debate as to what the three 'teeth' or 'claws' are on the family crest of Elizabeth Bathory.

I am interested in Heraldry and must admit that I thought these might be bear claws, so I did a little simple research and discovered, courtesy of the Heraldry site, this little snippet which should conclusively settle the argument ...

WOLF'S TEETH
Wolf's teeth are known from the eleventh century; there's a Hungarian family Bathory, meaning "wolf's-teeth."
Wolf's teeth are like little curved piles. When issuant from the sides of a shield they conventionally point downward.

The wolf's teeth were on the family crest long before it was surrounded by a dragon.

Of course, these don't do the conventional thing, they curve upwards instead.

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Countess Elizabeth Bathory Videos

The Most Evil Women In History - Elizabeth Bathory - Part 1/3
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Have you any thoughts on Elizabeth Bathory?

  • Chaya7 Nov 1, 2011 @ 2:44 pm | delete
    What happened to Elizabeth Bathory happened to every poor victim accused of "witchcraft" in Europe for hundreds of years. It is impossible today to know who she was. I believe that she was an innocent woman who was guilty only of making enemies of influential people. She was indicted and convicted by torture--under which people will say anything--as well as by fearful mobs of sheep-people. The unspeakable tortures and deaths of her friends as well as her own horrendous death may be added to the long list of horrors humans are capable of inflicting that serve to show just how evil we may become as we pretend to defend goodness.
  • iolausian Sep 2, 2011 @ 7:28 pm | delete
    The truth is, we will never know what truly happened in the Countess' time. She was a very important figure politically and to try to 'eliminate' her based on her beliefs or paying of a debt seems only partly viable, because she had such a high status in diplomacy, she could get people to converse politely in her parlor those things that would have started wars if discussed in less civilised settings. She spoke at least 3-4 languages, was skilled in getting both sides of warring factions to work towards resolving their reasons for going to war. Now, to me she sounds far more valuble an asset to both Church and State, no matter the problems brought about by rasoming her husband.
    Was she a vain woman? Quite likely she was, as she was often reffered to being 'one of the greatest beauties of her time'. Now as then, sad fact is that for many a woman's greatest asset was her beauty and her youth, even if she was intelligent and gifted, part of her allure was her beauty and if someone like herself is desperate to slow the passage of time, it is very possible she did try using human blood as a 'skin treatment'. Now, the one thing we're forgetting here is that when she first allegedly started this 'practice' on peasent servants, who were considered to be less than human for the most part. The nobility treated their horses and farm stock with greater respect! As the 'story' goes, the Countess was only brought up on charges because it was when young women of the 'lesser nobility' started disappearing after being invited to her castle for 'lessons'. I.E. how to walk, how to talk, basically what would amount to as vital lessons in how to behave in high society. This would considered very important in a young noblewoman's education as it would further her chances in finding a good marriage match, both financially and politically.
    It was *only* when these girls never returned from Castle Bathory after having lived and been taught these polite manners under the Countess' training, that people started asking about what happened to these young women.
    As for 'confessions taken by torture' that was considered, at the time the *only* way of 'getting the truth' from someone on the stand. One other point, the reason it was called 'testifying' is because men were usually considered 'intellegent enough' to testify and if they were caught in a lie, they had their testicles chopped off right then and there!
    Hence the term 'testifying'. Do I believe that the Countess is as bad as some would claim her to be? No, but I don't think she was entirely innocent either, the nobility of the time placed no value on the lives of peasants.
    Lastly, if she had been a man, would any of us care if she was framed or not? Why does anybody seem to think ol' Vlad Tsepesh or Vlad the Impaler was 'framed' by political or religous rivals?
    Just a few things to consider in both cases when deciding guilt or innocence of any person.
  • 0ctavias0fferings Sep 3, 2011 @ 3:14 am | delete
    An interesting and thought provoking comment. There is merit in some of what you say BUT when you say she sounds far more valuable as an asset to both Church and State you forget a couple of things, Elizabeth was owed, quite literally, a King's ransom, in fact probably more money than the King could possibly raise AND she was the wrong religion. To put it very simply, the King could not and would not pay the vast sum of money he owed to the Bathory family, particularly after the Count died, leaving Elizabeth vulnerable.
    The chief protagonist against Elizabeth stood to gain enormously by her demise and there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support the allegations against her. Nowhere is there any evidence that Elizabeth did anything other than ask for repayment of the money owed to her family. There is no record of the 'trial' other than that left by those who set themselves against Elizabeth Bathory.
    Curiously, some years later, the same sort of allegations were used against a daughter of the Bathory family and were dismissed as nonsense at trial.
    You say the nobility at the time placed no value on the lives of peasants, I think you may be surprised to learn that the nobility knew they needed the peasants to carry out the everyday tasks which kept their estates running and knew the precise value of every one of their workers lives, however, the local Count / Countess was responsible for justice on their own land and dispensed it where necessary. There is evidence that Elizabeth Bathory was a fair person in dealing with the subjects of her domain.
    And, by the way, Vlad Tepez was and still is a hero, he is certainly not the demonic image portrayed in most of the World.
    Never forget that "history" is written by the "winners" and paints a picture that they want all others to believe in. That's why true historians look for the primary evidence and ignore the sensationalist claptrap that comes after.
  • mismatch Jun 1, 2011 @ 9:58 am | delete
    I perfectly agree that many characters branded as bad might have been better people than many of those who branded them. I have a lens about Vlad Draculea the Impaler, roughly from the same perspective and I am glad to see someone caring about Erzsebet enough to give her a chance to get a better name to herself. Keep well. What about Lady Macbeth?
  • Photahsiamirabel Mar 13, 2011 @ 7:40 am | delete
    Revisitng a favourite of mine here, and I noticed the Like hadn't stuck! Anyway, leaving some angeldust in passing :)
  • ---Chazz Mar 11, 2011 @ 6:42 pm | delete
    Very interesting lens. Marking it a favorite so I will know when you update it.
  • Tourniquet Mar 7, 2011 @ 1:05 pm | delete
    for me Erzsébet (Elizabeth) Bathory was and is a role modle and that is why i would love to lern more about her. she sounds like someone that i kinda know (NOT the killing all those girls) more like the fact that she was not lost in her life more like she was a lone and she took out her anger on these girls and since she was rased to think that what she was doing was normal and to her she thought that she was only punishing them and not KILLING them you should not think that she did that for fun!!
  • Ilona1 Feb 27, 2011 @ 2:57 pm | delete
    Whether all the embroidered legend is true is hard to know, but it is apparent crimes were committed, and I doubt it is a good idea to completely rationalize Elizabeth Bathory.
    Interesting take, however.
  • javrsmith Jan 2, 2011 @ 7:40 pm | delete
    I'm saying innocent. This lens has been blessed.
  • WriterBuzz Nov 1, 2010 @ 2:51 am | delete
    If you like coffee, check out my lens on Who Invented Coffee. I found your lens by accident, and it's really nice. I gave you a thumbs up. Look forward to more lenses from you. I also did one on Migraine Headaches that might interest you. If you surf on by, leave me a comment.
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