Was The Irish Vote Correct?
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Turmoil in Europe as Irish Say No
Did the Irish do the right thing by voting no?
Essentially,because of my background in Africa,especially living under Robert Mugabe,who has now showed the world his true colours.
What has this taught me apart from defending my long held views?
1)You cannot let politicians make decisions for you.
2)Europe expects this from most of it's population.
3)Irish leaders had the foresight to ensure a referendum for it's people to their everlasting credit.
Of course,now they are not happy with the way things went, but I'm proud of the Irish for standing up for the staggering 450 million people who had no choice.
Who do you think did the right thing?
The NO voter or the YES voter?
I have added a prediction module for the second vote coming up on 2nd. October 2009. Scroll down and have your say.
Contents at a Glance
Scenic Ireland
South West Cork

The European Constitution
The Lisbon Treaty
For the ordinary person this is a very convoluted document. Essentially, this document has been drawn and re-done numerous times.It is exceedingly difficult, as you have different Nations with different cultures all competing with each other for preferential treatment.
Finally the politicians agreed. To their credit it was a lot of hard work. However, now came the test of trying to swing it with their populations.
Through past experience the Politicians knew that that would be very difficult. Therefore most countries in Europe just ratified the Constitution in their Parliaments without consulting their citizens, on the premise that they knew better than them;- sound familiar?
The Irish however had always insisted that any Constitutional changes must have a referendum by the people before their Parliament would agree to it.
The whole of Europe was waiting for the Irish to vote yes and if this occured the politicians were home and dry with the European Constitution. Mostly known as The Treaty of Lisbon
The Irish
A terrible beauty
Historically, Ireland was always poor and under British subjucation for centuries. After gaining their freedom they were determined to preserve the rights of the people.Within the last twenty years a phenomenam has occured and they now find themselves a wealthy Nation. This was almost entirely because the European Union pumped vast amounts of money into their economy and because large American multi-nationals decided to use Ireland as their base in Europe. Apple computers and Pratt and Whitney spring to mind.
But old habits die hard. The thing about the Irish, is that they are an `ornery people and they get away with this because it's part of their charm. Simply put, it means they like to be difficult.
Secondly, they are fierce proud of their beautiful little country and rightly so.
Irish Fears on the Referendum
Libertas
The Irish government were almost certain that they would get a yes vote. Consequently, they were complacent and did not manage to convince the electorate, even though they thought it would imperil Ireland if they voted no.However into this equation came a new organisation who jumped in and worked hard and made a big difference and I personally agree with them.
So you understand.
The European Constitution in it's entirity would confuse most highly trained lawyers and so the Irish citizen thought he was being conned.
Despite their reputation for liking brawls, the Irish are actualy pacifists and Ireland is a neutral country. Therefore they thought that they would be drawn into wars as part of Europe and compromise their neutrality.
They are also strongly Catholic and also believed that some of their beliefs would be comprised; a small example, pro- life.
The other thing is,"nobody tells me what to do."
These are only my opinions and not necessarily correct but I think the Irish did;
THE RIGHT THING
Irish crystal
World renowned Waterford crystal
Since Then.
The recession
There has been great disenchantment within government circles about the outcome.There has been a great scurrying of European Presidents coming and going to try and convince the Irish to change their mind.
The Irish government are talking about holding another referendum with dire warnings of the consequences of voting no again.
At present this has been pushed into the background as a result of worldwide economic problems.
Your opinions welcome
Did the Irish do the right thing by voting no?

Yes, you're right!
Barbara says:
Since time began, any grand plan, has only ever been about power. It's about time the Irish turned off 'Sky' and educate themselves as to what is being done, to them and their country, by the undemocratic EU/Germany.
History repeats, by war or by stealth.
Margaret_Schaut says:
The EU absolutely cannot be trusted, and Ireland needs and deserves its independence. Perhaps now it should follow some other examples and let the banksters be damned.
LaraineRose says:
The Irish have good reason to use caution. History is a great teacher.
scholar says:
I have not taken the time to fully research the treaty etc and am relying on the snippets in the article and on general principles embraced in the Universal declaration of Human Rights. But I feel obliged to state a case:
The EEC was originally an economic umbrella over Europe so that the barriers to trade could be removed. Ireland benefited from this along with the rest of Europe. Economically Ireland will continue to benefit as long as they can maintain their niche as a foothold on the continent for large US corporations. Voting yes would have threatened this even if it was only to prevent an increase in the corporation taxes. The politicians have to get a consensus on this and craft a transition agreement for Ireland.
Then there are the social concerns. Why the EEC has to meddle in the private affairs of citizens as to abortion or not is a mystery. It is up to the parents. They have choice. Of what importance is it to the powers that be? Why should a politician try to put a law in place when it is already covered by the religions? And if the religion has no stance on the matter, it is up to the parents on advisement from a competent gynecologist.
If Europe is to thrive, it will be from the activities of the entrepreneur and the small business owner. It is their productivity which creates the bolt-on production units that big corporations crave to acquire so as to continue their growth. My cursory glance at the way the EEC is run shows bureacracy at its worst. Huge government = rules to stifle initiative. It also feels as if the separate nations are not yet ready for the political union. They have grown into the economic union but the growing pains are not over. Once the integration is fully accomplished and prosperity prevails, then the political union could proceed as a clearing house for Europe wide matters. The states should handle their own affairs and let problems roll up to the EEC parliament only if 2 regions can not agree.
The Irish rightly said no and should say no until they are shown that the Treaty makes sense and does not take away from them any part of their right to maintain for themselves the choice that is ethical and moral according to their culture and upbringing. The role of government is to protect the weak from wanton force by the strong. It is also to maintain the Rule of Law so that honest commerce can occur. Perhaps the evolution is being rushed?
kephrira says:
The way Europe is being run is anti-democratic, and the Irish did right to recognise this and vote no.
JaguarJulie says:
Kevin -- I'd like to see a little MORE about what the Irish were voting on -- why did they vote NO? Maybe add a couple more modules to explain this.
Spook says:
They most certainly did. I'm proud of them defending Democracy and standing up for all the people who had no choice.
Of course everybody thinks the Irish are thick, hence all the jokes, but you know what?, more often than not we do the right thing
No way, Monkeybrain!
spirituality says:
The Dutch and the Irish both voted no - and I think they were both wrong. We need the EU: for economic stability AND political stability. It can't hurt that the EU as a united front is more powerful politically as well.
Soul-Mate says:
Spook,
I come from Africa too but have always been an Austrian citizen because my father is Austrian and i was born in Austria. I spent all of my childhood and most of my adult life in South Africa. I know Zimbabwe well. You may like to visit my website http://www.african-wild-adventures.com and read my comments about Zimbabwe.
Besides all the African stuff I am very pleased with the results of the EU. I now live in Austria (But do go to visit Southern Africa regularly) and understand that only by unity can we stop war and inequality. It's much like the United States of America. I know that even in Austria there are lots of people bitching about the EU but honestly do they think life was better before? They were bitching way back when too because they will never understand Life.
I find it scary enough that people whine about their rights but when voting time comes they don't vote cause they believe it that there is no one worth voting for or that nothing will change anyway.
I don't believe we can compare the EU to Africa. Without meaning to come across as rasist Europeans have a different culture which has been civilized over eons of time. Europeans have had enough strife, war and hardship. By unity we can become strong and ensure that everybody no matter whether they're from Italy or Germany has the same buying power and equal chance. God that almost sounds communistic doesn't it? But I'm non of that.
I'm fortunate to live a life where I do what I want and when I want because of technology like the internet and by living in Europe.
So yes I think the Irish should have voted so that they too can enjoy the benefits of a strong unity with other countries. But hey that's my opinion.
New referendum
Still at it
It may seem hard to believe but the EU and the Irish government are still trying to ensure that another referendum is held. They managed to get away with something similar before and are hoping for the same results again.For the life of me I cannot understand this. Perhaps they are trying to follow the lessons of certain African countries where you do not condone the peoples views. Unless they coincide with what you as a Government want irrespective that the people have already spoken.
Anyway within the corridors of power the moves have begun to have another referendum and this time if the vote is not 'Yes' then God help the Irish. I will keep you posted on this thread as events unfold.
They have done it, there is going to be another referendum God save us and unfortunately it appears at this time the people are swinging back towards a yes vote essentially because they need to borrow more money.
Libertas has been slow to re-act. Hundreds of years ago a great American President said," You cannot have security on borrowed money."
When will we ever learn? I often yearn for men like good old Honest Abe.
Some Irish happenings
The latest on the second referendum
Here we go again
They sure don't give up the Politicians
Well I said what I believed in the first time. It doesn't matter that the people rejected it and the politicians have tried to redress their fears. It doesn't mean a thing that the recession is causing harm. Voting no, had nothing to do with it, however much the politicians want you to believe that. Nothing matters anymore, not freedom or 450 million people who have no say. No Sir, all that matters is, that the politicians know better than anybody else. They more or less ruined the economy first around and they will do the same again.
So what do you think the vote will be.

Spook predicts:
They will get their Yes this time around

Margaret_Schaut predicts:
I think so too. Its a game politicians play. If they don't get their way the first time they try and try again until the people are so sick of it they get apathetic.
If you wish you can follow
My blog
A great Irish lens
Thank you for sharing
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Margaret_Schaut
Mar 7, 2011 @ 2:12 pm | delete
- I've long worried about Ireland. I'm delighted you made such a beautiful page about this debate. Ireland and its distinctive culture needs to survive and it must fight for its life, both economically and politically.
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OhMe Mar 4, 2009 @ 8:00 pm | delete
- Well done on a difficult subject. I enjoyed reading all the comments on the debate but would really have to do more studying before I voiced an opinion.
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LaraineRose Dec 24, 2008 @ 5:37 am | delete
- I'm Irish, or like to think I am (I really am a Heinz). Anyway, I enjoyed your lens and it got me thinking as well as others I'm sure. Please come have a look at my Irish Famine lens. I've lensrolled this lens to mine. 5*s, fan, favortite for your fabulous lens.
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My Squidoo stories
All Welcome
by Spook
All my life I have fell foul of politics. Consequently, I sometimes have strong views on it. In the end it's just a game.
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