Lost in the shuffle the hobby auction seller

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Is it difficult for hobby sellers to find a home in the online auction world?

This lens originally was a post on another one of my lenses but I decided that it needed a lens all its own. I am a hobby seller in the online auction world and as I wander through the numerous and varied online auction sites I have discovered on thing. Most of them are geared to the sellers who want to make their living online. Most hobby sellers started out or are still over on eBay as that is what you see on tv. Clean out your garage or attic and make money on eBay. But is that really the best site for small hobby sellers? Then you try all the alternative auction sites but there you have to work and promote yourself and do you really have the time to do it as a hobby? Then there are all the online malls but they are not truly auction sites so you have to do your research on other sites to see what your stuff is worth.

So where do you list your kids outgrown clothing and toys, your old unwanted gifts and collected whatnots that you have no use for? I can't tell you as there is no one size fits all answer but maybe I can help you have some of the tools you need to find your own way.

Traffic vs. customer base

Which is most important

Last night I had a very interesting conversation with Auction Wally regarding which is more important listing on a larger site that has traffic or selling on any site and bringing your customer base with you. As social media becomes more integrated into ecommerce it will be much easier to create a following, but does that following create a viable customer base or is it no different than the seller to seller base transactions that happen on the smaller auction platforms.

I am going to open this up to your opinions. Lets see if we can get some varied opinions. Please use the duel box below.

Thanks for sharing.

Which is more important to grow your business??

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A larger site with traffic more eyeballs = more sales

John (ColderICE) says:

You need to be IN FRONT of your customer EVERYWHERE you can. The thought of "draggin customers around to follow you where you go" is BS and will FAIL! It is NOT about you, it is about them. Make it easy for them and they will love you for it. So I say be on large, small and then spend the MOST TIME on the one that makes u the most $$$

things-and-other-stuff says:

End game: you want them to follow you. BUT starting out: you need them to find you and to build your reputation. So for most in search of this advice I'd recommend the larger site, get the eyeballs, get the sales, and most importantly--give them a reason to follow you to wherever you sell in the future.

A loyal customer base that will follow you were ever you sell

vince jelenic says:

In recessionary times, a loyal following is of prime importance. It MAINTAINS your business till it can grow organically. Then aim for eyeballs for growth. This assumes you already have a business. We sell 10 x volume on our own NING site (http://greenspot.ning.com) than on eBay store (we stopped all auctions). When/if economy picks up we're positioned to carry forwards our customer base with either venue and focus on growth.

 

The effects of eBays latest announcements for Hobby sellers

Changes are they good or bad.

EBay announced the new changes to their platform today and as all eBay sellers know they become effective either day, October 22, 2009 or in April 2010.
You can find the overview here:Announcements

I read them and then reviewed them several times today. I have followed the hashtag on twitter #ebayTrS, yes I am a big fan of twitter. I have listened to the podcasts where it has been discussed. Both on Ebay and Beyond Basics to Business with Special Guests Usher Lieberman and Andrew Chase of eBay, and The Selling Circus. Both podcasts had very active discussions on the changes what they mean and how they affect the sellers.

My take on the affect to the business of the Hobby or casual seller is this, there is the good news bad news to it all. The good news is come April 2010 even the casual or hobby seller has a chance to achieve Power Seller status with the discounts that title provides. All you have to do is sell 100 items or $3000.00 in 12 months on eBay and have the appropriate average in your DSR's. Which in April will be bumped up to 4.6 in all ratings but no longer include International DSR's in the average. So you follow good practices and sell and average of 8-10 items a month and $250.00 - $300.00 you can get a 5% discount on your eBay invoice.
If you qualify for Power Seller then you also have the opportunity to qualify for the 20% by having no more than two 1's or 2's in any category of your DSR's and get the Top Rated Seller Icon.
The bad side of that is being a smaller seller with 8-10 transactions a month or 100 a year buyers it will only take a few who report via the DSR's an unsatisfactory experience to have a greater impact on your selling experience on eBay. We all know that no matter how hard you try you can not please everyone all the time.

The other thing that may negatively affect you if you are a hobby or casual seller and you list on more that one platform is the stronger enforcement of Selling Practice policy. If you list one of a kind items you can only list them on eBay to ensure if the buyer purchases it that it will be available. I know that just makes sense but if you don't have a lot of inventory sometimes you list something at more than site and then end it when it sells elsewhere. It is not necessarily eBay that will find your multiple listings and report it so you must take care in cross listing items. Google is also cracking down on duplicate listings from the same sellers across multiple platforms.

The last of the big changes to me that affect the hobby seller is the cost of doing business. Insurance will no longer be an option. You either roll it into your shipping and handling,item price, don't offer it or pay for it yourself. You may no longer have it listed as a separate fee for the buyer. Now in truth insurance covers the seller more than the buyer. The buyer already has Paypal protection on their item. USPS insurance can be rather expensive. I personally use a Third Party Insurance provider. Shipsurance.com They provide insurance at a much better rate than USPS and I think UPS includes insurance to cover up to $100.00 in value in the shipping cost.

So all in all it is not the announcements that all eBay sellers were dreading and there appears to be both good and bad in today's announcements for the casual and hobby seller. I am sure there is a lot more I did not cover as the announcement when printed was 13 pages long but these are the big things I thought effected the littlest sellers on eBay.

One final note these changes should make you really think about selling as a hobby on eBay because even a casual seller is going to have to think of it more like a business then just selling their stuff for extra money. These standards take it one step further away from being an online garage sale or flea market.

The Next eBay Real or Myth

Will it ever exist

Lots of online auction sellers are waiting for the next site to grow up and attempt to slay the giant. Will it happen? I don't know but I really don't think so. The internet has changed a lot since eBay first started. The internet used to be a luxury. Now to a lot of people it is a necessity. I know I do most of my communication, bill paying, comparison shopping and even sending holiday cards online. Rarely do I use a check or a letter. So when eBay first started it was with the early adopters and the folks who just has some stuff they wanted to get rid of and make a little money.

Fast forward to today. Most people are much more internet savvy. Whether you are 3 or 93 you more than likely have used a computer for something. Now people are creating businesses online, with basic skills, computer skills and the variety of platforms available. If you have the desire you can create a business. Yet not all those businesses will be successful. You need to develop some basic business skills like marketing, accounting, product line development, and customer service.

People that do become successful are the reason I do not think there will ever be another eBay or a site that will take the giant down. They are entrepreneurs who want to work for themselves. The have the drive and ambition to move a business forward. An alpha personality if you will. They all have different needs to drive their individual business so there will never be a one size fits all site for them to build to the size of eBay.

When sellers first started on eBay it was the online flea market. It is now home to thousands of businesses of all sizes. I personally don't think when eBay was first created even they knew that they were giving rise to the largest organization of solopreneurs on the internet and as each experienced seller leaves the platform to expand their business a new seller steps in to take their place. For a lot of people eBay is a starting point to go on and create their own piece of the pie, their own little real estate, their personal website. Which is also why as they move to the other platforms like Bonanzle, Ecrater, Ebid and many others the have a much stronger sense of what their business needs as opposed to working together to create a stronger platform.

Right or wrong the goals of the individual seller are much different now than in the late 90's when eBay started and IMHO the needs of sellers will prevent any one platform from reaching the success of eBay at its pinnacle.

Please feel free to add you opinions in the comment section below. This is only one person's opinion and I would love to know what others think.

Lost in the shuffle

The littlest fish in the big online auction pond

If you are a hobby seller in the auction world like I am, I bet some of you are feeling lost in the shuffle.
eBay was where all the really little guys used to flock to because it was advertised as a place to clean out your attic, closets and garages and make a little money. Well last year that all change and eBay is not as friendly to the little guy anymore. DSRs, and feedback the tools that were supposed to tell you who were the good sellers and buyers and who needed improvement or were just plain scammers have now made it impossible for little hobby sellers to actually make any money. Then the fees are high so if you only sell a little you lost most in fees.

So you do your research and read everything, everywhere you can find it and what I discovered is everyone is an expert.

Build your own website some of the decree is the only way you will ever make any money Well if you are a hobby seller there is a reason you are either you don't have the time, money, experience or expertise to be a professional seller so a website of your own is not a feasible idea.

The next group of experts say stay on eBay as they have the buyers there for you. Well that is all well and good if you trust that their policies won't keep changing from day to day. They also say if the fees are too high your profit margin is too low. Well if you are a hobby seller you don't have much of a profit margin as you don't have a true stock just what you have on hand that you want to get rid of and make a little money on. Plus just one bad buyer can drop your feedback and dsrs low because you don't sell more than a few things a week or even in a month.

The third place you are advised to go is the Alternative auction websites or "st. elsewheres." They are attractive because the are usually free or relatively inexpensive to use. However they also don't have a lot of traffic which means not a lot of buyers for your stuff. Then you have to actually promote yourself and again if you are a hobby seller it is the same issue as with your own website. You either don't have the time, money or expertise to know what to do and where to go.

So the only safe conclusion I can draw from reading all over the internet is:
1. Be careful where you read as everyone has there own opinions and not every opinion has actual knowledge of the subject to back it up.

2. Forums can be great places for information but also full of spammers desperate to get people to their sites and less knowledgeable people can land on unsafe sites. No security, absentee owner or just plain idiot owners who have no idea what they are doing.

3. There is no one size fits all solution to the problem nor can you any longer put all your eggs in one basket.

4. Then again you have to make sure you don't spread yourself too thin trying to jump on to the bandwagon of the next site that will be competitive with eBay.
There is not an alternative site out there that is truly the next eBay and even eBay is no longer the eBay remembered fondly.

5. Read, read, read, there is a ton of information out there. Just take all you read and see what works for you. The "experts" all have different opinions and they are not you living your life, trying to do all you do. Some will tell you that you don't need to do your research because they have the answers. Well for anyone to be successful you have to do your own research.

6. Learn a little about self promotion. Start a lens, a blog. Just take a little time one a week to write about you and what you do or what you sell or even just where you sell. The more you do it the more comfortable you will become.

7. Since you don't have to make a living at it, find one or 2 sites and stick with them. Do it in any combination, Alt sites, Ebay whatever works for you. As my mother always said life wasn't built in a day. It takes time to get name recognition and your seller name is your "brand" name.

8. If you sign up for new sites try and keep the same user name across all the sites it helps buyers who like you find to you and continue doing business with you.

I am still just a hobby seller trying to negotiate my way around this auction world. You will discover some great and helpful folks out there but also beware of the bitter angry folks who attack with the slightest provocation. I have found support from a lot of different experienced sellers who take the time to help me learn the ropes of this strange new online auction world where the little guys tend to get lost in the shuffle.

I picked a site and choose to stick with it because it has a mission that I care about and that works for me, you will have to do a little research and find your niche. My personal feeling is some of the smaller auction sites will last because even the smallest of us needs a place to call home.

Online Auction sites for the hobby seller

Best online auction sites for small sellers

Looking for opinions on the best online auctions sites for small/hobby sellers. Auction sites only not online marketplaces.

What is the best online auction site for small sellers and why

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I like one of the smaller alternative sites.

Jerry Whitney says:

I am partial, but I think www.efleaa.com is the best online auction site that actually has a chance to compete with ebay for the smaller sellers and the power sellers, at efleaa there is a flea market like atmosphere to where sellers and buyers can privately interact with each other in real time and haggle or barter over items in efleaa's barter box from each item page, now that's fun.
You can list one item or a thousand for free, and can easily transfer items from ebay or other online auctions site in a few minutes with csv files.
We have surpassed ebay in page views per user and time spent on the site per user by almost triple, we have a long way to go to out do them in traffic rank and actual page views, but we are gaining every single day, we over took them in the pave views per user and time spent on the site per user in 3 months, only a matter of time before we over take them in the other two positions.
Yes efleaa is the best, it is the new old ebay of the 90s and the only auction site a person will ever need.

Full disclosure, we are the founders and owners of www.efleaa.com
We are efleaa, we are you.

Renagade says:

I like the smaller venues, and I feel eBay is taking a road that leads to nowhere.

fiftiesframes says:

I like a newbie "sellera arena" cuz it's all free and Bonanzle and an eBay alternative because there's loads of support and excellent people.

0ctavias0fferings says:

eBid is my favourite place because of the fee structure they've chosen and traffic is building well on the site. If you're a hobby seller or have a wide range of items to display, their set up is perfect. It's a small outlay really to take up a seller+ membership which will let you list and sell everything free thereafter.
If you use extras - like featured etc - you still only pay 2% FVF and then ONLY when the item sells.
Doesn't get much better than that, no relisting fees and at seller+ you get 5 stores included.

mommyto3 says:

Small/hobby sellers are the forgotten sellers in the online auction world.

ebay is the best place to be

birdhousebooks says:

I agree with Susan and Katskloset. When the average person thinks of online auctions, he or she thinks of eBay. The visibility of eBay makes it the best place to sell. List on eBay and be as visible as possible with a blog, Twitter, Facebook, Squidoo, etc.

Susan52 says:

I agree with katskloset. If you can tie your website to eBay, that should be a huge boost to your future business success. If you can't afford a website, do a free blog and tie that in.

katskloset says:

I recommend starting where you'll have the most eyeballs - eBay - and starting your very own website ASAP :)

Kelly says:

Unfortunately, eBay is the best auction site for small sellers. I have tried other sites, and they just don't have the traffic. The eBay fees stink, their feedback/DSR system stinks, and the market is flooded with their large "Diamond" sellers and their thousands of listings. The eBay market is harder to sell on, but at least I can make some sales, which is all that matters.

Cliff Aliperti says:

If you do mean specifically for "auctions" then you have to say eBay. The bidders are there. Even if you're going to do your own work to bring your own bidders, you'll have them plus those who already actually exist on eBay.

If we are talking about e-commerce platform in general than I lean towards the third option (first above), your own store. It's easy enough and cheap enough to do it yourself nowadays and I don't really see how it's anymore work than selling on an eBay-alternative platform where you're going to have to work and promote to find your own buyers anyway.

PS: Vince, as much as I'd like to take credit :) I didn't write this one--this piece is by Karen, aka @mommytoaaj on Twitter. Excellent work, Karen!

Thanks, Cliff

 
view all 11 comments

Mommy's Musings

My thoughts on anything and everything

I am glad you dropped by, on here you will find all may various thoughts and opinions on things happening in my life, the world of ecommerce and whatever else I happen to find interesting on any give day.

Your own thoughts and comments are always appreciated as I love a lively discourse on a my topics. I look forward to engaging in conversations with you.
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  • Reply
    vintagerosecollectibles Feb 1, 2010 @ 10:32 am | delete
    Hi saw your blog from The Vintage Village, so thought I would stop by and say hi!
  • Reply
    Auctionwally Jul 28, 2009 @ 9:03 pm | delete
    A great post, Karen and a very valid question. It's a pleasure to see my friends here, have contributed with experienced and well thought out input.

    I'd like to suggest a slightly different route, that goes against the grain of common thought here however.

    I'd urge those reading to really get a look at some of these new venues popping up. I'm selling on some of them and am having great success.

    Traffic or a large crowd is the biggest myth to success in the auction business.

    You only need 2 excited bidders to have a good auction.

    I've held thousands of auctions, live and online, and guess what, it always comes down to a hand full of bidders that makes you money. I'm holding auctions on 3 sites right now besides eBay. Many times there are only 2 or 5 people who attend, and they do very well. Can you get 2 to 5 good people to your auction? It's all you need.

    Traffic, bah! Give me a good product, no reserve and ANY selling platform and I'll auction it.

    Walt Kolenda
  • Reply
    Susan52 Jul 25, 2009 @ 11:36 am | delete
    You make some excellent points here, Karen, especially that there's no "one size fits all" answer. Your mother give good advice, too, that life isn't built in a day. Build your reputation and your brand by using a blog and, if you're comfortable with it, a website, then you'll be able to take your business anywhere as the venues change and the numbers grow.
  • Reply
    mommyto3 Jul 23, 2009 @ 9:53 am | in reply to vince jelenic | delete
    You probably found the lens via a retweet from Cliff on twitter which maybe be why you thought he wrote it. No offense taken. :)
  • Reply
    vince jelenic Jul 23, 2009 @ 9:49 am | delete
    Great post Karen.

    OOPs, atributing to Cliff in my response ... what a dope. No idea where my mind was. I guess parts of post were similar to something else I read or discussed somewhere during same day -- OR I was led here by Cliff somehow and assumed. or... ?

    As I keep telling my partner (biz) "never assume anything".

    Foot wil be removed from mouth after 12 pm. today (we'll let it soak a bit more, hard nails).
    cheers.
  • Reply
    Renagade Jul 22, 2009 @ 8:15 pm | delete
    WOW! What a lens!! You did a fantastic job covering all the points here. The good thing with the small sites, and even with ebay, amazon, etc is there IS so many to choose from now, and what sells on one site may bomb on another, but at least sellers...whether hobbist or pro, do have plenty to choose from!
  • Reply
    Consignment Pal Resale Directory Jul 22, 2009 @ 6:27 pm | delete
    mommyto3,

    You've done a terrific job voicing the major issues. Yes, times have really changed on eBay and we have to evolve too, painful though it is.

    Resale shops are another option. Besides online auction format, consider selling your hobby items, clothing, and general merchandise at resale and consignment clothing and furniture shops.

    While the consignment store commission may be more (33 - 50%) than on eBay, the selling price might ALSO be more than what you'd get on eBay. And you don't have to write the auction description, photograph, list, collection payment, ship, or answer emails. For busy moms and entrepreneurs, it's worth considering.

    Example: Last week when I went to Houston to move my daughter out of her apt, we took a Heywood-Wakefield vintage rattan table, vintage rattan chairs, a lucite and glass coffee table, and an English G Plan table to The Guild of St. John the Divine, a phenomenal nonprofit consignment store with only a 33% commission. Easy!
  • Reply
    Felicitations Jul 16, 2009 @ 1:20 am | delete
    I agree that it is most unlikely there will ever be another eBay but honestly who would want another eBay? As you said the internet has moved on. eBay's essentially 'AOL behind a wall' philosophy will become increasingly redundant as the good small sellers move off. With google to search for 'practicals' and one or two super easy to use niche sites, there is no reason to bother with a cumbersome glitch ridden 'I wanna be Walmart on steroids' site.

    Yes as one seller leaves three move in, the question is, are they making any money? Unless they are selling things they got for free the answer is, probably not.

    I have just celebrated one year on Bonanzle and it suits me and what i sell just fine. That doesn't mean it is going to be right for you. One size does not fit all.
  • Reply
    rainbowseeker Feb 24, 2009 @ 9:55 pm | delete
    Great opinion lens! Keep up the good work.

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I am a very busy mom to three children ages 2,7 and 26 and a grandmother of 2 ages 6 and 8 months. I am so glad I discovered squidoo as now I can shar... more »

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