This lens used to promote Kiva !!!

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Bah Hambug to Kiva !!!

I can no longer support an organziation that allows Americans to request loans to maintain or improve their way of life. The American peoples' condition is a result of their Government which wages war throughout the world. Their intrusion into others countries and cultures have caused much hardship. I understand the need to battle terrorism but could not the US have spent there $$$ domestically thereby creating jobs at home and not destroying the lifes of others abroad. And now the US (the richest country on earth) is asking the world to help them and Kiva gets into bed with them ... unbelievable!!!

Other countries, such as Cambodia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Uganda (and so on) need help far more than anyone in the United States. They are living in conditions that we wouldn't even let our dogs or cats live in. Kiva is right to help those countries but I feel they are way off the path by supporting American loans.

Once my money becomes available to me, I will be withdrawing it and redirecting it to other organizations whose ethics are more compatable with my own.

The Controversy Heats Up 

There is a new Kiva Team calling themselves Pissed of Kiva Lenders and in just 3 days or so, has about 340 members.

One of the messages that was posted there is:

Kiva, you've jumped the shark.

By lending to greedy Americans who have learned nothing from this Great Recession, you are perpetuating the social and cultural problems in this country that helped get us to this place. You are asking members to support a bored architect who can afford to buy decorative orchids for his stylish home but is asking others to pay for his new computer, a woman who needs more glittered dog harnesses and fashion sweaters for pets, and a guy who wants DJ equipment for his reality TV show dream (I suggest he start by selling his fancy watch and stop buying expensive clothes).

It's not that these people are simply from the US that is so disturbing, I would never lend to anyone in the world who asked for money for these purposes. It is counter to what I understood the intention of Kiva to be and embarrassing to me, someone who has been a strong supporter and participant in your efforts for nearly four years.

Posted by T Wells Trust
Jun 20, 2009 - 11:55 am PDT

Who are the Real Needy? 

On Kiva, you will find many people from many countries asking for loans of many different amounts. You might find someone in Cambodia who request $150 (for fertilizer) to be paid back in 14 months or an American who wants $6,000 (for a beauty salon) and 27 months to repay.

Now, in my opinion, someone who needs a mere $150 is in much dire straits then someone who asks for $6,000. Especially given the fact that there are very little (if any at all) opportunities ro raise extra money in a poor country. However, in the USA (the land of milk and honey) there are many opportunities. One just needs to get off their butt and find them. This is not a choice that someone in a developing country has.

And to make matters worse, Kiva put the US loan requests in amongst all the other loans. There are some American requests for $10,000 on the Kiva site. Something just does not add up to me. Is Kiva saying that all these loans have the same urgency? Are they saying the decison to fund these loans should be weighed the same? Perhaps, they should have segregated them to a distinct Kiva site rather then "lump" them in with more impoverished nations.

Bad enough that recently Kiva has run into a heated debate with some Kiva lenders over cock-fighting loans that they promoted. Now we have Kiva asking the world to lend money to citizens of the richest country on earth. It's a Non-Brainer for me ...time to find other organizations to help those really in need.

Sprinkling 

My biggest most single issue with Kiva is the "sprinkling" of US loans in with all the other loans. I feel that it is wrong that, as a potential lender who wants to browse available loan requests, I must encounter requests from the United States. Yes I can browse by country but what if I want to do a General Browse? There is no filter whereby I can exclude the United States - if there was, I would not find this an issue.

I have been advised by my spouse (another Kiva lender) that most of the US loans are being funded by Americans. That I can understand - they do have a right to help their own people. I just feel that Kiva should have set up a separate web site specifically for these loans.

What do others think? 

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  • Reply
    Reggie_Marigold Reggie_Marigold Jun 23, 2009 @ 7:27 pm
    Microfinance companies need to due their due dilengence in whom they lend to. The monetary difference between a US borrower and a Sierra Leone borrower are based on where they live. The microfinance company simply says to Kiva "Here's a borrower. Connect to a lender". The lender (you, me & the Royal we) then pick a LOAN to fund based on our private and personal criteria.

    I must admit I don't ever recall reading anything about poverty - "people living without electricity, clean water, inspected food and/or indoor toilets" - on Kiva. What I do recall form day one is the "Borrower to Lender" concept and that hasn't lept out the window because the US has been added. Kiva isn't aid. Kiva is a tool in which an lender can find a entrepreneur online to support.

    As for people in need that don't say "Thank you", I feel that mostly that isn't about greed. I think that it's mostly their overwhelmed or depressed or a whole host of other issues that have nothing to do with the giver.
  • Reply
    Sverre Skimemland Sverre Skimemland Jun 23, 2009 @ 8:00 am
    Join the debate here:
    http://www.kiva.org/team/pissed_off_kiva_lenders
  • Reply
    Zut_Moon Zut_Moon Jun 23, 2009 @ 3:06 am | in reply to mulberry
    This happened to us one Christmas as well. A needy family got 3 car loads of gifts and I don't believe there was even a Thank You given in return. Too many people are greedy

    Our shopping centre put on a free BBQ for the locals one year and it included one small free bush per person. Of course, some asshole managed to get himself three and then got really pissed off when he went for a fourth and was refused. This BBQ event lasted 2 years and then was dropped ...wonder why?

    As for Americans on Kiva,there is a Major Debate occuring at the Kiva website especially among a team called Pissed Off Kiva Lenders. Americans are asking for loans as high as $10,000 and want to buy computer equipment, update their beauty salon,etc, Some of these people have been in business for 3 or 4 years!!! One big issue here is that these business are on shakey grounds and have a high risk of defaulting. Defaults will put Kiva's credibility and descision-making into question.
  • Reply
    mulberry mulberry Jun 23, 2009 @ 2:31 am
    Unfortunately, this isn't the first time I've encountered this. Giving to the needy only to find they aren't really needy. I always gave gifts to needy families at Christmas. I'll never forget my first experience with it years ago. I bought several toys for a family with 3 kids and then we were allowed to visit with the family. I was immediately honked off when I entered their living room and saw the big screen TV. You have to find an organization that supports those things that are in line with your thinking...it takes some research.
  • Reply
    TeamBigDog TeamBigDog Jun 23, 2009 @ 1:06 am
    When I first joined Kiva, they presented a definition of poverty that I could agree with, people living without electricity, clean water, inspected food and/or indoor toilets. Now, with these loans to Americans, it seems that Kiva has expanded the definition of poverty. One of the US borrowers was an architectural graphic designer that borrowed $7000 to buy hardware and technical software. He also has15 years experience in his field, but hasn't saved enough money to buy what he needs? Why can't someone with his experience go to a bank, credit union or a relative and borrow the money he needs?
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