by 15 people |
Whether you are a current Kleeneze distributor, or just thinking about joining, or even an ex-distributor, this page is for you.
What are your thoughts?
A day in the life of a Kleeneze Distributor....
If you join Kleeneze: Catalogues, catalogues, catalogues....
Independent Kleeneze Distributors are self-employed representatives of the company and earn a 21% commission from the sale of any items from any catalogues which they distribute, either to friends and family or door to door.A Distrubutor with Kleeneze has this job to do before she earns any money:
1. The Kleeneze distributor buys a few hundred catalogues from Kleeneze, spending their own money. [Yes, the kleeneze company makes a profit from the sale of the catalogues to distributors]
2. The Kleeneze distributor posts a few hundred catalogues door to door, with a little note inside of what day they will be recollecting them.
3. The Kleeneze distributor waits whilst some of the people look through the catalogues and think about ordering things.
4. The Kleeneze distributor re-walks the same route as before, but this time knocking on the doors asking for the catalogue back (to re-use next time).
5. The Kleeneze distributor takes whatever catalogues they could re-collect home with them and counts up the orders, then enters them in on the Kleeneze website, under their name.
6. The Kleeneze distributor takes delivery (at their house) of all the products that all the customers ordered, then sorts them for each customer.
7. The Kleeneze distributor drives back around all the houses knocking the doors giving people what they ordered and collecting the cash.
8. The Kleeneze distributor finally takes all the cash home, keeps 21%, and sends the rest to Kleeneze UK LTD head office.
9. The Kleeneze distributor repeats the whole process the following week.
Wow...
The Vampire Distributors?
The goal of every Kleeneze Distributor is to recruit enough people into his or her Kleeneze business, who deliver catalogues door to door and repeat the 8 steps above, so that Mr or Mrs Kleeneze Distributor don't have to do it themselves.This is because Kleeneze Distributors earn a percentage of the sales generated by the distributors they recruit.
Given the scarily-high drop out rate of new Kleeneze distributors, Mr Kleeneze Distributor succeeds in creating an "automatic residual income" only by recruiting an insane amount of new people. This is called Vampire Marketing.
New blood, new blood, new people, new people. Because no customers can put in orders directly with the company. So for any distributor to earn RESIDUAL income and not have to work for it is by having tons of new people. And those new people would need new people. And those new people.... you get the idea...
Someone has to be out there delivering catalogues! This is NOT the case in many other business opportunities, and there is no reason Kleeneze can't have their customers order directly from them and still pay the agent who introduced them.
Kleeneze Numbers
Rising numbers in the Kleeneze Graveyard
In Kleeneze's interim report regarding the number of distributors it was stated that "the downward trend [of new distributors joining] experienced over the last 18 months - reversed in the second half of the year such that at the end of April it was 13524 (2004 = 13397).
"They had 13524 in September 2005. That's a net increase of 127 distributors since their 2004 report!
That's not really very many distributors to share out amongst the 13000 - 16000 distributors there are at present!! Kleeneze continues to recruit nearly 2000 distributors each month, but the activation and then retention rates of distributors year on year has fallen. Using these figures 24000 new distributors are recruited per annum and in 2005 there was a net increase of only 127. The rest quit. In previous years there had been a decline!
In the interim report it was stated that the number of distributors who put through regular orders fell from 9.6% to 8.5% in 2004.
Building a Kleeneze business for a residual income (money you're paid even if you don't work) is extremely difficult when that income is coming from sales put through by distributors you have recruited, when 99% of them will quit, and when only 8.5% of those who remain generate regular product orders.
There must be a lot of very bad leaders in Kleeneze if it is the case that 24000 new distributors were recruited in one year yet at the end of the year there were only 127 more."
Do these numbers show Kleeneze to be a sinking ship?
Some Ex-Distributors Say.....
A real quote from a real person
"Kleeneze makes a lot of play out of 'selling' the success of their top few people - and says nothing regarding the many who buy into the business in good faith, only to fail.If you are reading this wondering whether to join, forget the hype & let the company figures do the talking.
Kleeneze has 3 main 'legs' whose combined bulk sales accounts for most of their business: Gavin Scott (GS), Chris Mason-Paull(CMP), Freda Fenn(FF).
November (P12 for those in the business) is the most successful - these are the ACTUAL turnover figures for the last 3 years:
2005:
GS: 4,584,278
CMP: 1,724,410
FF: 818,490
2006:
GS: 3,821,392
CMP: 1,351,094
FF: 769,247
2007:
GS: 3,309,174
CMP: 1,107,726
FF: 765,317
Remember, these are the 3 most successful groups in Kleeneze - and if they can't retain their people with over 15 year experience ... what chance do you have?
Will it work for you? You decide!"
Some Ex-Distributors Say.....
A real quote from a real person
"I am not sure how Kleeneze has escaped the attention of the Advertising Standards Authority.Most of the distributors say, or at least imply, that £1 per door is attained immediately. As someone who knows something about this business, I would put the average for a starter at 65p per door, they usually also fail to state that not all catalogues are retrieved even after 2 attempts and the losses of around 10% will be suffered.
This changes a reasonable, theoretical, hourly rate to something very different especially when you consider that they substantially understate the hours required, they usually mention only delivery and pick up time, there is also chasing 'straggler' catalogues and bagging up the catalogues (very time consuming) and record keeping which is vital. A new starter is lucky to earn £1.20 per hour and this will take months to improve upon."
Some Ex-Distributors Say.....
A real quote from a real person
"How is one of those 127 newbies going to recruit a large team if there are only going to be another 130 newbies join next year. 20,000+ leaving every year is a failure - over 99% of people who join Kleeneze fail. How many people have joined YOUR team since you joined? How many of these are putting orders in week after week? They are building peoples dreams up - but Kleeneze is no longer a viable option. As well as this I have recently been talking to a guy who was in Kleeneze 6 years ago - at that point in time they had over 16000 distributors - compare that to the 13,500 now - well what is happening - Kleeneze as a Network Marketing company is no longer viable for people who join in the UK.Nearly every home gets at least 2 catalogues (a fact which the customer finds annoying). Are the company leaders really training new distributors -or were they out in Germany building a new team - an option any newbies in this country could not afford. The ones on the Top are getting richer - the ones at the bottom are merely proping them up with very little chance of success.
JOIN KLEENEZE NOW & BE A FAILURE"
Some Ex-Distributors Say.....
A real quote from a real person
"When I was a gold distributor & had an income cheque of £1200 for the month I could not sleep at night. Not from excitement. But because that wasn't my income. I had to take money for catalogues off that, newspaper ads, shop ads, printing costs, petrol (this was VERY high when you take into consideration all the meetings I went to & going to meet leads - as well as delivering products to people).I haven't bothered with another business opportunity - I am investing my money in a range of gilts, stocks, shares etc - my residual income is now building to be a genuine residual income - one which I will not have to do any work in order to recieve - unlike Kleeneze supposed residual income - which does require continued work - no retirement in Oz that way."
Some Ex-Distributors Say.....
A real quote from a real person
"I joined Kleeneze in 1997. I had been working on a project that was coming to an end and as I hated the thought of having to go back to working for someone else I decided to call the number on a card that popped through my letter box one day.I got an application form, filled it out, sent off my 40 quid and waited for my pack to arrive. My partner and I were all excited, new venture, our own business.
We followed the instructions and bagged our brochures, and I chose an evening to go out and deliver them to houses. One of the first things I noticed was there were already brochures lying in porches waiting to be picked up by the house owner or collected by a Kleeneze distributor!!
I thought I would be the only distributor for my area.
A determined sort, me, so, I went out a bit further and repeated the exercise. I also went back to the first area about a week later, and I lost nearly every single brochure (30p each at the time). The second area was similar to the first and my brochure return was very low and my orders from two area's was zero.
Determined sort me, so, off I went to a different town just outside Cardiff, South Wales. I went to Llantrisant. I repeated the exercise. Up to this point I had spent a bit of money on extra brochures, printing, fuel etc. I'll never ever forget the night I went back to Llantrisant and trawled the streets collecting brochures. I got soaked in heavy rain and started thinking, mmmmm, this is not all it's cracked up to be. I did get quite a few brochures back this time and Yippee, an order. It was for a plastic shoulder shawl for home hairdressing £4.99 :(
Off I went home, processed the order. I decided to deliver more brochures in that area when I went back to deliver the shawl. Off I went to deliver the shawl, got the daughter at the door as the mum who ordered it was out and she didn't have £4.99 to give me. I left the shawl and said i'd be back. I repeated the exercise 3 more times, lost more brochures, got one more order for a juice jug, £3.99, lost loads more brochures. Got soaked in the rain a few times then gave up crying. It cost me a small fortune in fuel, brochures, printing and more. And I never did get paid for that shawl!
Kleeneze does not work in the UK, period."
Some Ex-Distributors Say.....
A real quote from a real person
"I got conned with Kleeneze too. Sales went flat last year and didn't recover. We got conned by people who were supposed to be our friends. The bled us dry and are still trying to bleed us dry - when things were bad they bailed us out. As we knew them nothing was put in writing.They've more than trebled the amount we were supposed to owe them and caused trouble in public for us. I am taking legal advice. These were people who we thought were friends as well as upline. NEVER get involved with Kleeneze. It nearly made us bankrupt. Upline profit off your back.
One of the most annoying things was our upline sponsored new people into the team, putting them under us. The new people tried to steal our regulars by telling them we'd quit. When I complained to upline, they just said they were new and it was a mistake! Too many mistakes. Liars!!!"
Some Ex-Distributors Say.....
A real quote from a real person
"It is a real shame that Kleeneze has come to the state in the UK as it is. I think a few years ago if you had joined and recruited non-stop you would have a large organisation like the top earners now.It won in 1996 or 1997 the best business opportunity in the UK voted by a leading business magazine.I joined Kleeneze in Sept 1998 and nearly quit by Christmas as I was losing money and going into debt but was pursuaded to carry on.I managed to turn things around slowly and by Nov 1999 nearly reached Gold distributor.That is where I reached my peak and things stagnated for a while.
Then things started to slide and I eventually left in Sept 2001 3 years later.I left behind some good friends and miss them.The team I was with was turning over at it's peak £90,000 in 1 period in year 2000.His latest turnover in 2007 was £9600 a drop of £80,000.Its true its on the slide.
I feel sorry for my upline because he and his wife worked very hard to build up their team,but if your downline don't achieve what you have they begin to disappear and before you know it your business suffers too.Its' a snowball effect which can work for you but also against you as well."
12 Burning Kleeneze Questions, by commenter 'Observer'
Before you join any business opportunity it is important to not only hear their reasons for signing up, but to also ask the right questions. Before you sign up to anything you need to be completely satisfied with the answers you hear to your most important questions, and Kleeneze is of course no exception.Below in the comments 'Observer' posted a list of questions he feels you should get answered. As they are quite important, and certainly deserver to be answered, I am going to highlight them here.
If you have any answers you wish to provide, post in the comments below!
Here are his questions:
- 1. What do you feel would be the effect on the business if current legislation on unsolicited mail and cold calling was extended to the type of catalogue business your are in?
2. Kleeneze is often presented as an alternative pension scheme capable of providing a similar type of residual income to everyone involved. Do you feel that this is compatible with the reality of the current compensation plan?
3. Are the Income Cheques extensivley used to promote the business gross or net figures?
4. Would it be unfair to say that distributors are as much a source of income as the gross revenue earned on product sales [when you consider catalogue sales, etc]?
5. Do you feel that all distributors and lines of sponsorship operate on the same level playing field?
6. How would you feel about free catalogues being made available to selected distributors if that were happening?
7. It would appear that, in common with other similar programmes, the targets for the bonus structure is linked to the rate of V.A.T. This makes perfect sense in providing a stable vehicle that need never fluctuate unless the rate of VAT changes. The rate of VAT has recently changed. Why haven't the bonus targets?
8. There is general recognition that one of the best ways to asess a business is its performance in the field of product selection and stock control. How do you feel that Kleeneze measures up in this respect?
9. Is there any established or meaningful ongoing quality control function within the business?
10. As you are probably aware there have been several product recalls and alerts throughout the retail sector as a whole (e.g. lead in toy paints, melamine in milk products etc) from sources in the Far East. Is the distributor the first point of reference back in any such incident and is Product Liability Insurance therefore advisable?
11. There seems to be significant expenditure on providing incentives such as Overseas Trips and Vehicles etc. Do you feel that this expenditure would be better deployed in strengthening the Management Team and would any resulting improvement provide a more meaningfull long term incentive to the distributors?
12. DO YOU FEEL THAT SUCH A LIST OF QUESTIONS AS THIS ARE REASONABLE TO ASK BY ANYONE CONDUCTING "DUE DILIGENCE" BEFORE JOINING THE BUSINESS?
Calling All Distributors and Ex-Distributors!
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I filter out any posts that contain swear words, spam, or people who post adverts and links to their kleeneze website with messages of 'join my team we are the greatest team ever'. You would be surprised at how many of these get posted here! Positives and negatives will be posted, but let's keep this a real discussion. The most recent comments appear at the top.
Note: Only the 60 most recent comments will now be shown on this page. To see the rest there will be a button at the bottom of the list.
Observer wrote
in reply to TIRED DISTRIBUTOR Thanks.
Posted July 10, 2009
TIRED DISTRIBUTOR wrote
in reply to Observer ( 8. There is general recognition that one of the best ways to asess a business is its performance in the field of product selection and stock control. How do you feel that Kleeneze measures up in this respect?)
Reply : Very poor I'm afraid. I regularly receive products amongst my delivery that have been opened previously. Kleeneze's quality control must be so poor. It is so embaressing when an item is returned by a customer because it had been clearly opened by someone else and returned. This is just not good enough!!!
Kleeneze built up it's reputation in the past by it's quality. Sadly this no longer exists today. So many of the products are tacky to say the least.
Posted July 09, 2009
tired distributor wrote
in reply to Observer I'm sure that will be the case. Part of the course with all timeshare companies. Ok if a person is familiar with the sales methods. For those who are not it can be a difficult experience.
Yet another Kleeneze gimmick. We have seen so many over the years and bought into them Equitalk etc. Lots of huff and puff. Nothing has ever stood the test of time.
A partnership with a timeshare company now !. May look good on the surface but I can foresee problems with this one yet again.!!
Posted July 09, 2009
Observer wrote
in reply to Oh Dear Kleeneze has just launched "An Exclusive Holiday Offer For Customers".
Is it a fact that the company providing these (Avanti Holiday Passport) is essentially a time share operation?
If so, does this mean that those customers who register for this will be subjected to telesales calls (and sales presentations during their holiday)?
Posted July 07, 2009
Observer wrote
in reply to Tired distributor Please feel free.
Posted July 07, 2009
William Shakespeare wrote
in reply to Oh Dear Reference "facts". May I recommend googling Avanti Holidays Timeshare (the suppliers of "An Exclusive Holiday Offer For Kleeneze Customers!"). The facts in the Albuferia Forum and the Money Saving Expert one may be of particular interest to you.
Posted July 06, 2009
Tired distributor wrote
in reply to Observer Pleasure. I notice your message of 15th May have a large list of quite detailed questions. I would not be best qualified to answer them all but would be willing to hep with any that I can, if you still require. Best wishes.
Posted July 06, 2009
Observer wrote
in reply to Tired distributor Thanks for your response( which chimes with similar comments I have had from other sources) . Best wishes for the future.
Posted July 05, 2009
Tired distributor wrote
in reply to OBSERVER Most certainly did in the past and a hell of a lot went on. We were one of the main instigators with our complaints to Kleeneze in the company tightening up on this practice.
Today they have made it more difficult but such things are still going on.
Bottom line is people can be de-motivated using the most subtle of means. Mainly by cross-line or thick uplines or uplines with incredible egos that see them as more important than their incomes. Sounds crazy but it's true!!
Posted July 04, 2009
Jokes ctd. wrote
plus actual catalogues). This further increases your expenses so yeah if you want to build a proper business with this (which by the way, is NOT your business, you are just buying into a crap franchise), you will not make money at the begging or for a while. If you do it will be peanuts. But then all you will be told is, you just do it part time around your normal job. Ok so if you do that its going to take you even longer to do, and even then your success is not guaranteed.
Then you have meetings to travel to and from to, leaflets to buy, to deliver, appointments to make and then visit and see, sponser, look after them, even when they themselves will not put any books out.
You see you might be able to deliver 500 books per week, but 9 out of 10 people wont, probably more. Most will just leave after the first 100 books. Ok so where is your 8 people making £1000 retail per month comming from?
seriously think about it.
Posted July 01, 2009
Jokes wrote
The difference between a pyramid scheme and MLM is that with pyramid scheme you have to pay to join a pyramid scheme, and that payment goes to the sponser.
The only difference with kleeneze is that they more than likly make a profit from selling you the retail kit and catalogues, even though it is suggested that you only pay for part of this.
Another thing is with the MLM voice mail system you are encorouged to use and that they put into the retail packs. Kleeneze is probably taking a small % of the profit from that too.
Dont be fooled by a lot of what is said. The format is exactly the same as a pyramid scheme.
I remember I was told once that you need to attend the meetings to keep the fire in you going, other wise you will cave in and give up. So not only is there work putting catalogues out, bringing them in, setting them up, printing labels (by the way the more books you put out the more setting up, printing you will do, and more snappy bags you need to buy, plus actual ....
Posted July 01, 2009
Concerned wrote
in reply to kleeneze works! Hello. Are you there? Are you still with us? Is it still working for you?
Posted June 30, 2009
OBSERVER wrote
in reply to Oh Dear Would you like to respond to any of the points I made to "Kleeneze Works" on May 15?
Posted June 30, 2009
William Shakespeare wrote
in reply to Oh Dear Ref. "facts". May I recommend www.shareprice.co.uk
When through type in FDL (the market code for Findel) and click on GO.
Then click on Discussions and select iii.co.uk
This will display an excellent, objective and informed thread (including contributions from recent and current employees of the company) ,devoid of any illogical propaganda or wishfull thinking ,from current and prospective investors.
This will give plenty of "facts" BUT BE WARNED.......You may not like them!
Posted June 30, 2009
OBSERVER wrote
in reply to Tired distributor "my business was attacked".
Do the mathematics of the pay plan sometimes encourage this to happen to the benefit of "uplines" ?
Posted June 29, 2009
OBSERVER wrote
Its beginning to look like I'm not going to get any response to the list of questions I put to "Kleeneze works" on May 15.
Would any one else like to respond?
Posted June 28, 2009
Oh Dear wrote
in reply to shushers
Why don't you actually look up what a Pyramid Scheme is ? Then you'll see the difference.
Facts, stick to the facts.
Posted June 28, 2009
Tired distributor wrote
in reply to Sarah Agree totally same happened to me. I lost 3 gold distributors due to upline interference. Either moved lines of sponsorhip or resigned due to de-motivation by crossline manipulation. Some of these people are lovely nice people to your face and can't wait to stab you in the back big time - extremely sly and evil people.
My business was attacked because I was accused of not duplicating the system.Just because we chose to run our own meetings which we were quite good at our upline took umbrage !!. My team members were picked off one by one when their businesses were'nt moving as often happens and encouraged to attend upline and cross-line meetings. It was then that they werte cleverly de-motivated. Not one of my team who went to the cross-line meetings were able to move up a single level in the pay plan. Most eventually left the business after losing face - they felt with us. All very sad and frustrating
Posted June 26, 2009
Tired distributor wrote
12 years in the business. Up until 4 years ago did everything required to build a business. Travelled the length and breadth of the country to support our team members and to speak in conferences. The more we did the more we were in demand.
Sponsored a few hundred at least into the business many of which we placed with team members. That's what we were taught back then.
Invested about £1500 a month back into the business. Spent every conceiveable hour on the phone or putting catalogues out. Our family really got quite concerned by us with the work we were putting in. We would socialise with either people in our business or whom we thought may be good prospects for our business.
We kept up this frantic pace for about 8 years when things caught up with us. Our relationship was suffering because all we'd talk about was blessed Kleeneze. Eventually my wife was taken ill and that was it. I am pleased to say she recovered but slung Kleeneze into touch. I carried on ticking over. Beware!!!
Posted June 26, 2009
shushers wrote
No matter which way you word it , Kleeneze is a pyramid scheme (ooops i forgot were not allowed to say that because they are illegal in the UK)
Posted June 23, 2009
Riverstone
in reply to Happy to oblige Hey nice one,will def give that a go.Thanks.
Posted June 22, 2009
William Shakespeare wrote
in reply to Kleeneze works! It seems that the MLM industry makes extensive use of the sayings of American "gurus" (some of which are direct descendants of the original snake oil salesmen) at its "trainings". So here is one for you from George W. Bush (based on another well known original)
"You can fool some of the people all of the time............So these are the ones you should concentrate on!"
Posted June 22, 2009
Happy to oblige wrote
in reply to Riverstone There are always opportunities but first you need to decide if you want "your own business". Mainly this means that you have control over what you sell, how you sell it, how you source it, how you manage it etc.....
If you decide that you do:
a) Get yourself down to a Wholesale Trade Warehouse near to you(you can get lots of information on this from "THE TRADER" weekly magazine(which is also available online))
b) Have a look at what is available and the prices you can buy at.
c) When your jaw has finished dropping get your calculator out and establish the prices you wish to sell at to customers and the gross margins available to you.(your jaw may drop again)
d) Also confirm to yourself that,with the margins available, you can also recruit and pay a team of people(if you wish to give yourself added "leverage")
e) Allow some more jaw dropping time.
f) Get on with it!
TIP. Avoid anything involving a plug or a battery and your returns will be Zero!
Posted June 21, 2009
John wrote
in reply to Hello Hello, Hello. Sorry for any offence. This is actually my validictory post on this site as I have today taken the decision to resign from Kleeneze after 17 years involvement. It is a little ahead of schedule as I have not quite built up my other business to the level that I required before taking this step but I can frankly no longer stomach what it now has become compared to the business that I was proud to be originally involved with.
Posted June 19, 2009
Riverstone
Throw enough s**t at the wall & something is bound to stick,this is what my upline said to me last week about having a few new distributors in one area,does'nt matter if they've paid money up front to go & struggle with other distributors.It's not on,I really like working with my customers but I really cant go lying & setting people up,Im looking for a GOOD home based business to get involved with,does anyone know of or involved in one?any input/leads would be great.Thanks.
Posted June 19, 2009
OBSERVER wrote
in reply to Hello Would you like to have a go at answering the questions I put to "kleeneze works" on May 15 ?. It would be very helpful.
Posted June 19, 2009
Hello wrote
in reply to John
Actually John, I did reply to specific questions. I replied to two people as you could blatently see! I was just pointing out that I probably wouldn't be coming back on here - I just by chance happened to return today! But it has nothing to do with being ignorant towards answering people's questions, but nobody had any questions to ask me specifically did they, so what is there for me to answer?
Like I said, I answered 2 people, so clearly I would answer a question if I was asked! I was just letting people know that if they didn't get a reply back that I wasn't being rude by not replying! So don't dare suggesting that I won't answer questions.
If you want to ask me questions then ask me questions
shanice_swaby@hotmail.co.uk
Posted June 18, 2009
John wrote
in reply to Hello Not to worry. Not replying back to specific questions seems to be the norm for Kleeneze distributors who post on here.
Posted June 17, 2009
Hello wrote
Just to let people know, I probably won't be on here again - just incase you wanted to reply and wondered why you got no reply back.
Posted June 16, 2009
Hello wrote
in reply to Tony I think it depends on the area, because I've seen other distributor, but still had sales. It also depends on the numbers, it is "a numbers game." Because we were only putting out about £200 at the most (sometimes less) catalogues a week and wondering why our sales weren't very high, then we put out more than we were and our sales boomed. The customer base will come, you must have some customers already? - Well that's your customer base, even if it's not as big as you'd like!
See if you can maybe put out more catalogues if you're struggling with money - maybe get a friend/family member to help out?
Posted June 16, 2009
Hello wrote
in reply to Ms E
There are benefits with Kleeneze, holidays and cars. Granted you have to work for them, but why shouldn't you work for them?
In terms of paying for the books, if you're starting up a business, I mean any business at all, you need to invest some money to start it up, right? Well paying for the catalogues is the same thing - it's an investment to start up your business. Which you get back anyway, because if you put in the work you'll either earn the money back from retail profit, or you'll qualify for something which is currently running where if you get a certain amount of sales you get the money back. And if you get it back after your first year anyway.
Posted June 16, 2009
Riverstone
The biggest problem I have with it is the lack of thought of THE CUSTOMERS,it's all the business,the business,the business,go to the (utterly pointless) mettings but the best of the best is 'dont mention it's kleeneze if you get a call about the business opportunity'What the **** is that about.
Posted June 13, 2009
OBSERVER wrote
in reply to jules Thank you for your response. It was most helpful.
Posted June 07, 2009
Charles wrote
STILL NO REPLY? TRUTH HURTS MAYBE
[in reply to kleeneze works!] Charles all my ads say earn an extra income from delivering & collecting catalogues. "
But your website makes no mention of catalogues?
" I don't need or want to hasle anyone to join. I'm too busy growing my business ."
This is a good example of Kleeneze agents distorting the truth!
If you are "growing your business" please explain how in period 3 2007 you were turning over 48,985 pound and TWO years later period 3 2009 your turnover had shrunk to 43,945 pound? Not a massive drop, but I am struggling to see the growth you mentioned.
Listening to the top Kleeneze agents, it is boom time for the growth of the Kleeneze business?
"i'm going to recommend to my team - established and new - to take a look at this blog , because there are far more of us ( just in my team) making a success of kleeneze, than the few on this blog who choose to run it down. "
Are you sure you want your team to know the truth?
Posted June 05, 2009
jules wrote
in reply to OBSERVER Interesting post, Here's the latest http://www.findel.co.uk 22.05.09. If Findel decide to sell Kleeneze then we move on to the next, if not and it becomes another Woolworths then so be it. I can only go on what is happening right now, present time. No point in stressing about future events they haven't happened yet. I can honestly say this business has and is being good to us. It's a fine line with network marketing and I am under no illusion that I own my own business, the decisions made by the exec's are totally out of my hands. There are many ways to make money, we have just chosen this vehicle.
Posted June 04, 2009
OBSERVER wrote
in reply to jules Last week the parent company of Kleeneze (Findel plc) announced that a) Talks with its bankers about renegotiating its debt posItion (currently approx.£420 million) may lead to a reduction in its revolving credit facility (i.e.overdraft) b) It is considering asking its shareholders for further funding (in the form of a rights issue) and c) The next set of results due to be announced shortly have been defered pending a further announcement.
Understandably this has led to further significant falls in its share price and rumours are now rife in stockmarket comments that everything in the group is now up for sale with the exception of Express Gifts and the core part of the Educational Supplies Division.
If this is the case do you feel that there would be any more "takers" for Kleeneze and if so why?
Posted June 02, 2009
jules wrote
in reply to William Shakespeare no need to shout but thanks for the correction, I will endeavour to take a more positive approach to spell check ;)
Posted May 27, 2009
John wrote
in reply to Ms E Fair comment especially as you are coming from the perspective of a customer.
And, no, it doesn't currently have a U.S.P relevent to today's market place. THE TRADEGY IS THAT IT COULD HAVE.
Posted May 25, 2009
John wrote
in reply to jules Before you bring Richard Berry into the debate I would strongly recommend that you get hold of a copy of his excellent book "Direct Selling" (ISBN 0-7506-2235-0) and read it properly. It was first published 10 years ago but still contains material which is very relevent to today. e.g. "stock availabilty of the current range of products is of crucial importance to any Direct Sales Organisation". e.g "a direct seller may have relied on a cancelled order to qualify for a specific monthly volume bonus". e.g. "these are problems that any D.S.O. should endeavour to avoid. If they do not then they are likely to lose their direct sellers"etc. etc. etc.
Anything sounds familiar?
Posted May 25, 2009
jules wrote
in reply to Derek Hi with regards to the DSA here is what Richard Berry says about Kleeneze and Direct Selling. http://www.KleenezeWales.com
Posted May 25, 2009
Ms E wrote
Having read all the posts on this blog I would conclude that I would rather get a minimum wage job on a production line than work for Kleeneze because at least you get employment benefits!!
1. A distributor put a catalogue through my door advertising for people to "distribute catalogues" for hourly pay. Lie no. 1 since there was no mention that I had to actually BUY the catalgues and basically become an agent until I wasted a phone call.
2. Isn't Kleeneze just another business that has become socially irrelevant to much of the market in the face of the internet??? I ordered a couple of items last month and it took 3 weeks to be delivered. And even then 2 of 5 items were missing as they were out of stock. Hello? If I had cancelled my order to use tesco, argos or even Lakeland Ltd websites, the poor agent who'd visited me 3 times for his catalogue would have wasted effort. Surely the company would make more money as an e-shop? Does the company even have a USP anymore?
Posted May 24, 2009
William Shakespeare wrote
in reply to jules So have you. Positve is spelt POSITIVE.
Posted May 24, 2009
same old same old wrote
With a real business you dont need to go to a hyped up meeting to feel good and positive about your future, you just work it and it feels good anyway at the end of a hard day.
Posted May 19, 2009
same old same old wrote
yeah I wonder why retail return is better than 11 years ago? maybe because the value of money increases? To people considering kleeneze take a look at a few posts below where a long term distributor at bronze exec. lyn has to say about kleeneze. It speaks volumes (more than kleeneze sales).
I would say if you are the sort of person that is happy to sell junk and generally look like a right ... weirdo.. then do kleeneze.
And dont forget: 'Kleeneze works its people that dont'.
Im self employed and work sometimes 7 days a week, also learning new skills at night very rarely go out and yet I struggled to earn a decent income. Even though I worked the 'business'. This is not your own business, you are an employee and all the hype around it is phycological babble to make you feel invincible. If you get that feeling at a meeting, wait untill a couple of days passes and you have books to collect, or orders to deliver and then look at your wallet.
Posted May 19, 2009
Doug wrote
in reply to Tony
It will be a sad day when it stops trading, but if it can't grow when there is an army of people looking for money, when can it?
I am an agent at present and even when people are desperate for money they would rather go hungry than do Kleeneze.
If they do join the majority think twice afterwards and there catalogues never see the light of day.
The ones who do have a go soon give up after poor orders and agents around them struggling to grab any orders going.
Like you say there own total figures speak volumes when you see how it compares to a year ago.
Posted May 18, 2009
Jean wrote
in reply to John At our time of life we need more stability and all the nonsense of a 3 to 5 year retirement plan is a total pipedream, you must always be sponsoring in the vast majority of cases or else your business disappears.
You only have to look at some of the main busy earners in Kleeneze and their frozen turnovers to prove that.
The amount of time and effort some of my Kleeneze colleagues put into their business is very commendable, but when you review their turnovers it's sadly going nowhere and in most cases creeping down.
It is more a case of consolidating their businesses and therefore their incomes by filling in the gaps left by leaving distributors.
This explains why the total company turnover and number of agents is in slow but steady decline, the gaps are becoming harder and harder to find and fill, therefore the future of the business becomes questionable at best.
Posted May 18, 2009
Jean wrote
in reply to lyn
I am sorry to hear that Lyn, but we are in much the same position as you.
Around 3 years ago our business peaked at Silver Ex Dist with a strong psg outside the 3 Gold legs. We have been on two trips, 1 International and 1 European during our time in Kleeneze, both were lovely.
It is with great sadness we are inclined to agree with you. 1 of our Gold agents lasted the bare minimum to qualify for a conference i.e. 3 periods.
This as I'm sure you are aware quite common, a mad push for qualification then all crumbles away.
1 of the other Gold agents has since dropped to less than 3000 turnover and being left at the Senior level (1 gold agent) can reduce your earnings quite dramatically. At our time of life we need more stability and all the nonsense of a 3 to 5 year retirement plan is a total pipedream, you must always be sponsoring in the vast majority of cases or else your business disappears.
Posted May 18, 2009
Charles wrote
in reply to kleeneze works!
"Charles all my ads say earn an extra income from delivering & collecting catalogues. "
But your website makes no mention of catalogues?
" I don't need or want to hasle anyone to join. I'm too busy growing my business ."
This is a good example of Kleeneze agents distorting the truth!
If you are "growing your business" please explain how in period 3 2007 you were turning over 48,985 pound and TWO years later period 3 2009 your turnover had shrunk to 43,945 pound? Not a massive drop, but I am struggling to see the growth you mentioned.
Listening to the top Kleeneze agents, it is boom time for the growth of the Kleeneze business?
"i'm going to recommend to my team - established and new - to take a look at this blog , because there are far more of us ( just in my team) making a success of kleeneze, than the few on this blog who choose to run it down. "
Are you sure you want your team to know the truth?
Posted May 18, 2009
jules wrote
in reply to Derek Firstly Derek, as a Kleeneze distributor, these distributors should be kicked out. There is nothing wrong with the business model as it is and run fairly gives an honest view of what the business can give. People are sold the "dream" as with all network marketing/mlm companies. What people tend to forget is that the business is about how to earn £50 -£500 per week which can be achieved on retail alone. As for the DSA, the chairman is a man called Richard Berry, I am sure he would be very interested to hear your comments. Both he and yourself would be more than welcome to attend our business meeting in Carmarthen.
My wife was so conned by these leaches I am writing to these governing bodies to try and put a stop to this miss selling and malpractice.
Posted May 17, 2009
jules wrote
Its a shame that very few of your utility warehouse testimonials have their monthly earnings attached.
Posted May 17, 2009
jules wrote
in reply to Ray You have a grammatical error in your post. ;)
Posted May 17, 2009
jules wrote
What ever your moan, gripe or positve comment is, Kleeneze is a business that has been around for far longer than the vast majority here. It was also the first mlm company in the direct selling association as well as the uk. Network marketing is about moving product, no products move, no business and since it is about the movement of products then the focus should be on the customer not on yourself. We have around 800 regular ordering customers, worked on a 4 -5 weekly cycle. This brings us in on retail alone £400 -£600 per month for around 15 hours retail work p/k. We have had our business for 4 years built up some very good freindships with our customers. Yes we recommend the business to others as it has provided us with what we want, £600 per month. It's Net "WORK" Marketing not Net "i'll have ago" Marketing. People fail/quit for a variety of reasons blaming Kleeneze is just passing on your own personal responsibility to a 3rd party at least it eases the pain for your own failings
Posted May 17, 2009
John wrote
in reply to kleeneze works! You say that you have had ex distributors" rejoin with you" from your advertising.This would appear to put you in breach of the company policy which states that anyone who leaves cannot rejoin until a period of 6 months has elapsed and then they must do so within the original team they left.This rule is there to stop the practice of poaching.Have you been granted exemption from this?
Posted May 15, 2009
OBSERVER wrote
in reply to kleeneze works! There seems to be significant expenditure on providing incentives such as Overseas Trips and Vehicles etc. Do you feel that this expenditure would be better deployed in strengthening the Management Team and would any resulting improvement provide a more meaningfull long term incentive to the distributors
*DO YOU FEEL THAT SUCH A LIST OF QUESTIONS AS THIS ARE REASONABLE TO ASK BY ANYONE CONDUCTING "DUE DILIGENCE" BEFORE JOINING THE BUSINESS
Posted May 15, 2009
OBSERVER wrote
in reply to kleeneze works!
Continued.
*It would appear that,in common with other similar programmes, the targets for the bonus structure is linked to the rate of V.A.T.This makes perfect sense in providing a stable vehicle that need never fluctuate unless the rate of VAT changes.The rate of VAT has recently changed. Why hasn't the bonus targets.
*There is general recognition that one of the best ways to asess a business is its performance in the field of product selection and stock control. How do you feel that Kleeneze measures up in this respect.
*Is there any established or meaningful ongoing quality control function within the business.
*As you are probably aware there have been several product recalls and alerts throughout the retail sector as a whole (e.g. lead in toy paints, melamine in milk products etc.) from sources in the Far East. Is the distributor the first point of reference back in any such incident and is Product Liability Insurance therefore advisable
Cont.
Posted May 15, 2009
OBSERVER wrote
in reply to kleeneze works!
Continued.
*What do you feel would be the effect on the business if current legislation on unsolicited mail and cold calling was extended to the type of catalogue business your are in.
*Kleeneze is often presented as an alternative pension scheme capable of providing a similar type of residual income.Do you feel that this is compatible with the reality of the current compensation plan.
*Are the Income Cheques extensivley used to promote the business gross or net figures.
*Are any individuals employed by the previous owners (Farepack Christmas Hampers) still involved in the current structure.
*Would it be unfair to say that distributors are as much a source of income as the gross revenue earned on product sales.
*Do you feel that all distributors and lines of sponsorship operate on the same level playing field.
*What do you feel about free catalogues being made available to selected distributors if that were happening.
To be continued.
*
Posted May 15, 2009
OBSERVER wrote
in reply to kleeneze works! I am not a distributor but am/have been in contact with several current and previous ones at all levels in the course of producing a commercial analysis on the business.
It would be a great help if you (and any members of your team that you have invited to view this site) were able to give a response to the following points that have been identified during my various contacts.
*Kleeneze is often presented as "your business". What would be your definition of an "own business"
*There seems to be frequent references in advertising to a "low cost franchise" in comparison with other franchise opportunities.Do you feel that Kleeneze would comply with the British Franchise Association's definition of a Franchise.
*Do you feel that there is anything in the Distributor Agreement (e.g.prohibition of participation in other programmes) that breaches current legislation on restraint of trade.)
To be continued.
Posted May 15, 2009
kleeneze works! wrote
in reply to Charles
Charles all my ads say earn an extra income from delivering & collecting catalogues. the reason I don't put the word kleeneze in - is because i get alot of people ring up for a cleaning job. but also when i have run an ad with Kleeneze in - i have had ex distributors answer and rejoin with me - so it can't be all bad - oh and they havern't quit
I ask for peoples telephone numbers, so that I can qualify what they are looking for before i go and see them and if they join great if not fine! - I don't need or want to hasle anyone to join. I'm too busy growing my business and I would rather spend my time helping and supporting the people in my team who want to be there.
i'm going to recommend to my team - established and new - to take a look at this blog , because there are far more of us ( just in my team) making a success of kleeneze, than the few on this blog who choose to run it down. www.ottincome.com
Posted May 14, 2009
kleeneze works! wrote
in reply to Julie - well Julie that is what happened to me - i was so in debt when I started up, that I had to borrow the cash to join - and I gave it 2 weeks - to prove to myself that I could earn the money I needed from the catalogue - and I did.
if a system doen't work for you, or its stops working - find out what businesses are growing & copy their system- thats what we do.
people are joining all the time and making a success of it - a young couple last week were awarded 2 cars for their rapid growth through the ranks - they only joined last year.
I still retail & have 1200 established customers which I go to on a 5 week cycle and my personal retail is around £3k every period.
i also put out 150 old catalogues in different areas each week to see the response on a first time blanket drop, so I know what my new team members will find when they start and I get orders and find customers - I find that the retail return is better than it was 11 years ago.
.
Posted May 14, 2009
John wrote
in reply to lyn Lyn. I dont know you but it was with great regret that I read your post although your decision is entirely understandable. Whatever is said I would just like you to know that you have my respect and admiration for what you have achieved (in spite of all the obstacles that I know you have come up against) and please accept my best wishes for the future and I hope that you get the success and recognition that your obvious ability and commitment deserves.
Posted May 13, 2009
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