Why Kleeneze can make you cry. Here are the negatives.

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What is it about Kleeneze that causes 99% of new distributors to quit? And what causes only 8.5% of those who don't quit to put orders through regularly?

Whether you are a current Kleeneze distributor, or just thinking about joining, or even an ex-distributor, this page is for you.

What are your thoughts?

A day in the life of a Kleeneze Distributor....

If you join Kleeneze: Catalogues, catalogues, catalogues....

Independent Kleeneze Distributors are self-employed representatives of the company and earn a 21% commission from the sale of any items from any catalogues which they distribute, either to friends and family or door to door.

A Distrubutor with Kleeneze has this job to do before she earns any money:

1. The Kleeneze distributor buys a few hundred catalogues from Kleeneze, spending their own money. [Yes, the kleeneze company makes a profit from the sale of the catalogues to distributors]

2. The Kleeneze distributor posts a few hundred catalogues door to door, with a little note inside of what day they will be recollecting them.

3. The Kleeneze distributor waits whilst some of the people look through the catalogues and think about ordering things.

4. The Kleeneze distributor re-walks the same route as before, but this time knocking on the doors asking for the catalogue back (to re-use next time).

5. The Kleeneze distributor takes whatever catalogues they could re-collect home with them and counts up the orders, then enters them in on the Kleeneze website, under their name.

6. The Kleeneze distributor takes delivery (at their house) of all the products that all the customers ordered, then sorts them for each customer.

7. The Kleeneze distributor drives back around all the houses knocking the doors giving people what they ordered and collecting the cash.

8. The Kleeneze distributor finally takes all the cash home, keeps 21%, and sends the rest to Kleeneze UK LTD head office.

9. The Kleeneze distributor repeats the whole process the following week.

Wow...

The Vampire Distributors?

The goal of every Kleeneze Distributor is to recruit enough people into his or her Kleeneze business, who deliver catalogues door to door and repeat the 8 steps above, so that Mr or Mrs Kleeneze Distributor don't have to do it themselves.

This is because Kleeneze Distributors earn a percentage of the sales generated by the distributors they recruit.

Given the scarily-high drop out rate of new Kleeneze distributors, Mr Kleeneze Distributor succeeds in creating an "automatic residual income" only by recruiting an insane amount of new people. This is called Vampire Marketing.

New blood, new blood, new people, new people. Because no customers can put in orders directly with the company. So for any distributor to earn RESIDUAL income and not have to work for it is by having tons of new people. And those new people would need new people. And those new people.... you get the idea...

Someone has to be out there delivering catalogues! This is NOT the case in many other business opportunities, and there is no reason Kleeneze can't have their customers order directly from them and still pay the agent who introduced them.

Kleeneze Numbers

Rising numbers in the Kleeneze Graveyard

In Kleeneze's interim report regarding the number of distributors it was stated that "the downward trend [of new distributors joining] experienced over the last 18 months - reversed in the second half of the year such that at the end of April it was 13524 (2004 = 13397).

"They had 13524 in September 2005. That's a net increase of 127 distributors since their 2004 report!

That's not really very many distributors to share out amongst the 13000 - 16000 distributors there are at present!! Kleeneze continues to recruit nearly 2000 distributors each month, but the activation and then retention rates of distributors year on year has fallen. Using these figures 24000 new distributors are recruited per annum and in 2005 there was a net increase of only 127. The rest quit. In previous years there had been a decline!

In the interim report it was stated that the number of distributors who put through regular orders fell from 9.6% to 8.5% in 2004.

Building a Kleeneze business for a residual income (money you're paid even if you don't work) is extremely difficult when that income is coming from sales put through by distributors you have recruited, when 99% of them will quit, and when only 8.5% of those who remain generate regular product orders.

There must be a lot of very bad leaders in Kleeneze if it is the case that 24000 new distributors were recruited in one year yet at the end of the year there were only 127 more."

Do these numbers show Kleeneze to be a sinking ship?

Some Ex-Distributors Say.....

A real quote from a real person

"Kleeneze makes a lot of play out of 'selling' the success of their top few people - and says nothing regarding the many who buy into the business in good faith, only to fail.

If you are reading this wondering whether to join, forget the hype & let the company figures do the talking.

Kleeneze has 3 main 'legs' whose combined bulk sales accounts for most of their business: Gavin Scott (GS), Chris Mason-Paull(CMP), Freda Fenn(FF).

November (P12 for those in the business) is the most successful - these are the ACTUAL turnover figures for the last 3 years:

2005:
GS: 4,584,278
CMP: 1,724,410
FF: 818,490

2006:
GS: 3,821,392
CMP: 1,351,094
FF: 769,247

2007:
GS: 3,309,174
CMP: 1,107,726
FF: 765,317

Remember, these are the 3 most successful groups in Kleeneze - and if they can't retain their people with over 15 year experience ... what chance do you have?

Will it work for you? You decide!"

Some Ex-Distributors Say.....

A real quote from a real person

"I am not sure how Kleeneze has escaped the attention of the Advertising Standards Authority.

Most of the distributors say, or at least imply, that £1 per door is attained immediately. As someone who knows something about this business, I would put the average for a starter at 65p per door, they usually also fail to state that not all catalogues are retrieved even after 2 attempts and the losses of around 10% will be suffered.

This changes a reasonable, theoretical, hourly rate to something very different especially when you consider that they substantially understate the hours required, they usually mention only delivery and pick up time, there is also chasing 'straggler' catalogues and bagging up the catalogues (very time consuming) and record keeping which is vital. A new starter is lucky to earn £1.20 per hour and this will take months to improve upon."

Some Ex-Distributors Say.....

A real quote from a real person

"How is one of those 127 newbies going to recruit a large team if there are only going to be another 130 newbies join next year. 20,000+ leaving every year is a failure - over 99% of people who join Kleeneze fail. How many people have joined YOUR team since you joined? How many of these are putting orders in week after week? They are building peoples dreams up - but Kleeneze is no longer a viable option. As well as this I have recently been talking to a guy who was in Kleeneze 6 years ago - at that point in time they had over 16000 distributors - compare that to the 13,500 now - well what is happening - Kleeneze as a Network Marketing company is no longer viable for people who join in the UK.

Nearly every home gets at least 2 catalogues (a fact which the customer finds annoying). Are the company leaders really training new distributors -or were they out in Germany building a new team - an option any newbies in this country could not afford. The ones on the Top are getting richer - the ones at the bottom are merely proping them up with very little chance of success.

JOIN KLEENEZE NOW & BE A FAILURE"

Some Ex-Distributors Say.....

A real quote from a real person

"When I was a gold distributor & had an income cheque of £1200 for the month I could not sleep at night. Not from excitement. But because that wasn't my income. I had to take money for catalogues off that, newspaper ads, shop ads, printing costs, petrol (this was VERY high when you take into consideration all the meetings I went to & going to meet leads - as well as delivering products to people).

I haven't bothered with another business opportunity - I am investing my money in a range of gilts, stocks, shares etc - my residual income is now building to be a genuine residual income - one which I will not have to do any work in order to recieve - unlike Kleeneze supposed residual income - which does require continued work - no retirement in Oz that way."

Some Ex-Distributors Say.....

A real quote from a real person

"I joined Kleeneze in 1997. I had been working on a project that was coming to an end and as I hated the thought of having to go back to working for someone else I decided to call the number on a card that popped through my letter box one day.

I got an application form, filled it out, sent off my 40 quid and waited for my pack to arrive. My partner and I were all excited, new venture, our own business.

We followed the instructions and bagged our brochures, and I chose an evening to go out and deliver them to houses. One of the first things I noticed was there were already brochures lying in porches waiting to be picked up by the house owner or collected by a Kleeneze distributor!!

I thought I would be the only distributor for my area.

A determined sort, me, so, I went out a bit further and repeated the exercise. I also went back to the first area about a week later, and I lost nearly every single brochure (30p each at the time). The second area was similar to the first and my brochure return was very low and my orders from two area's was zero.

Determined sort me, so, off I went to a different town just outside Cardiff, South Wales. I went to Llantrisant. I repeated the exercise. Up to this point I had spent a bit of money on extra brochures, printing, fuel etc. I'll never ever forget the night I went back to Llantrisant and trawled the streets collecting brochures. I got soaked in heavy rain and started thinking, mmmmm, this is not all it's cracked up to be. I did get quite a few brochures back this time and Yippee, an order. It was for a plastic shoulder shawl for home hairdressing £4.99 :(

Off I went home, processed the order. I decided to deliver more brochures in that area when I went back to deliver the shawl. Off I went to deliver the shawl, got the daughter at the door as the mum who ordered it was out and she didn't have £4.99 to give me. I left the shawl and said i'd be back. I repeated the exercise 3 more times, lost more brochures, got one more order for a juice jug, £3.99, lost loads more brochures. Got soaked in the rain a few times then gave up crying. It cost me a small fortune in fuel, brochures, printing and more. And I never did get paid for that shawl!

Kleeneze does not work in the UK, period."

Some Ex-Distributors Say.....

A real quote from a real person

"I got conned with Kleeneze too. Sales went flat last year and didn't recover. We got conned by people who were supposed to be our friends. The bled us dry and are still trying to bleed us dry - when things were bad they bailed us out. As we knew them nothing was put in writing.

They've more than trebled the amount we were supposed to owe them and caused trouble in public for us. I am taking legal advice. These were people who we thought were friends as well as upline. NEVER get involved with Kleeneze. It nearly made us bankrupt. Upline profit off your back.

One of the most annoying things was our upline sponsored new people into the team, putting them under us. The new people tried to steal our regulars by telling them we'd quit. When I complained to upline, they just said they were new and it was a mistake! Too many mistakes. Liars!!!"

Some Ex-Distributors Say.....

A real quote from a real person

"It is a real shame that Kleeneze has come to the state in the UK as it is. I think a few years ago if you had joined and recruited non-stop you would have a large organisation like the top earners now.It won in 1996 or 1997 the best business opportunity in the UK voted by a leading business magazine.

I joined Kleeneze in Sept 1998 and nearly quit by Christmas as I was losing money and going into debt but was pursuaded to carry on.I managed to turn things around slowly and by Nov 1999 nearly reached Gold distributor.That is where I reached my peak and things stagnated for a while.

Then things started to slide and I eventually left in Sept 2001 3 years later.I left behind some good friends and miss them.The team I was with was turning over at it's peak £90,000 in 1 period in year 2000.His latest turnover in 2007 was £9600 a drop of £80,000.Its true its on the slide.

I feel sorry for my upline because he and his wife worked very hard to build up their team,but if your downline don't achieve what you have they begin to disappear and before you know it your business suffers too.Its' a snowball effect which can work for you but also against you as well."

12 Burning Kleeneze Questions, by commenter 'Observer'

Before you join any business opportunity it is important to not only hear their reasons for signing up, but to also ask the right questions. Before you sign up to anything you need to be completely satisfied with the answers you hear to your most important questions, and Kleeneze is of course no exception.

Below in the comments 'Observer' posted a list of questions he feels you should get answered. As they are quite important, and certainly deserver to be answered, I am going to highlight them here.

If you have any answers you wish to provide, post in the comments below!

Here are his questions:

10.

11.

12.

Calling All Distributors and Ex-Distributors!

Feedback Feedback Feedback

Are you a Kleeneze Distributor? Did you used to be? Are you considering it?

Post your feedback and comments!

I filter out any posts that contain swear words, spam, or people who post adverts and links to their kleeneze website with messages of 'join my team we are the greatest team ever'. You would be surprised at how many of these get posted here! Positives and negatives will be posted, but let's keep this a real discussion. The most recent comments appear at the top.

Note: Only the 60 most recent comments will now be shown on this page. To see the rest there will be a button at the bottom of the list.

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kinada kinada Nov 8, 2009 @ 2:28 am

I'm new to Kleeneze and have been retailing for a few weeks now. My sponsor is keen for me to get a team going so I was re-reading the agreement and wondering if anyone is interpreting the bad debt clause in 6.7 in the same way as me.

This says "Kleeneze reserves the right to recover payments which arise as a result of the actions relating to your downline distributors who are terminated (sounds a bit harsh!) as a result of bad debts where this is caused by the failure of the Upline to show appropriate care".

So, assuming a distributor in my team orders �500 worth of goods and doesn't pay Kleeneze, as their sponsor I would be liable for the debt! There is no actual legal/financial connection between each distributor's business so under these circumstances what gives Kleeneze the right to hold one business liable for anothers debt? The distributor agreement I signed is with Kleeneze, not my sponsor. The orders I place (and therefore the sales contracts made) are with Kleeneze!

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Alan Fisher Alan Fisher Nov 15, 2009 @ 9:22 am

For all practical purposes I don't think you have anything to worry about but your question does make the point that everyone should read the small print of anything before signing it. If there's anything you don't understand or are concerned about seek independent and unbiased advice before commiting.

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Abhik Khan Abhik Khan Nov 6, 2009 @ 2:51 am

cont: Every other MLM or network has replicated websites for their new distributors to promote the business with, not with Kleeneze though. You have to get your own websites built and these have to be approved but many are not. Kleeneze cannot keep up with the web, even more so with social networking sites. Any business that uses this kind of bullying mentality of man management needs to have a serious look at the Kleeneze management itself and not threaten its distributors, who are in effect just trying to further their own businesses. NO BOSS, I think the Advertising Standards Agency needs to visit all these MLM companies that shout from the roof tops about how you are your own boss. Don't delude yourself, joining any MLM business you are at the mercy of the company and have very few employment rights.

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Abhik Khan Abhik Khan Nov 6, 2009 @ 2:50 am

The latest Kleeneze fiasco orchestrated by MD J. Stewart over the JV between Kleeneze and the NFSP is no better. I believe that this information on the NFSP JV was in public domain prior to the launch, yet distributors were silenced in the promotion by threatening their accounts with closure by the MD. I have been told by reliable sources this JV now is a local sponsoring activity which kind of flies in the face of the no territory aspect of Kleeneze. There have also been attacks in the form of account closure and vacation withdrawal by Management at distributors who have actively been promoting this via the web and unprofessionalism from Kleeneze distributors who are not very good at handling rejection are causing members of the NFSP to complain to their federation. As a business Kleeneze appears to be a good earner, I've seen my friend's income cheques. As a network, Kleeneze have not a clue and any new distributor is at a distinct disadvantage.

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Earnmoreincome Earnmoreincome Nov 6, 2009 @ 1:56 am

We have been doing Kleeneze for 12 years. Customers who we found 12 years ago are still buying. As a business model it has no equal as the more times the catalogue goes out the lower the unit cost. Many of my catalogues do 30 or more outings so the unit cost is about 2p and for every catalogue I put out now I get a return in orders of �1.85 in profit. Few opportunities will give you an exponential return of that magnititude. Yes, I did have to put some work in at the beginning. These returns are equal to the buy-to-let market but without the risk. 12 years ago we started with 200 catalogues and sent some �300 in extra catalogues in the first 3 months and have continued to top up ever since.

So one can moan as much as one likes about the fact that Kleeneze does not work when it is patently obvious that it does work and works massively. Yes, I lost catalogues, met angry people who I never had to meet again, etc

Our website is http://www.vastincome.com

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Pinocchio Pinocchio Oct 30, 2009 @ 3:05 pm | in reply to Kay

Cont.
Prep 200 Cats. 1.5. Drop 200 Cats. 4. First Collect 4. Second Collect 2. Check off and prep 24 orders 1.5 . Deliver (including second and third attempts) 3. Collect and refund returns 0.5 Admin 0.5
Total hours worked specific to this drop =17
Earnings per hour = �4.65(before 20% tax if applicable)

Which do you feel is the more realistic scenario ?

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Pinocchio Pinocchio Oct 30, 2009 @ 2:53 pm | in reply to Kay

Hello Kay. I think the points you make are very reasonable but how many people are recruited on those understandings? In the spirit of peace and harmony lets put aside any considerations of product quality/availability, managerial competance etc. and look at 2 scenarios.
1. A blanket drop of 200 books produces 24 orders totalling �355.50. The distributor is on 18% bonus in that period which means he has earnt �117.31 which he says is �16.75 per hour. (7 hours work).
2. Take the above �117.31 and deduct 10% for out of stocks and products returned (�11.73). Assume 20% catalogue loss (for 2 collections-remember he is saying he has only had to work 7 hours) so deduct 40 sets at 66p each =�26.40. We are now down to earnings of �79.18 (with no account being taken of any further costs directly attributable to this drop such as petrol for collections/delivery,printing etc.)
Would the following calculation on the actual hours worked on this drop be fair?
Cont.

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John Stothers John Stothers Oct 30, 2009 @ 6:09 am

I have been doing Kleeneze for 4 years now and as a lifestyle its good. I use my bicycle to deliver the catalogues and collect. I use a butcher's boy type cycle for the deliveries (green or wot?) Joking about the deliveries bit. I just think I could never recommend Kleeneze to anyone except for the "Lyfestyle" angle. i.e Exercise and having a chance to meet some lovely people (OK some are't so good but on balance its good ). The money return is poor and I won't recruit people on the earn big bucks ticket (so no-one has been recuited). One thing which I think looks like a scam is the �7.50 recent free three months trial voice mail (Which I didnt use and never would thinking about it). I noticed after a while I was getting charged two lots of �7.50 a month, one for internet and one for as it turns out the (now live) voice mail monthy charge. I didnt twig until this month what was going on and cancelled. Sneaky same charge lookalike?? Tale one from the make you cry locker

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Kay Kay Oct 29, 2009 @ 7:37 am

I have to disagree with the idea of 'vampire marketing'.
Many distributors are happy to keep delivering catalogues and make a living that way rather than recruiting others. A distributor is in no way obliged to sponser anybody.

As for losing catalogues - this is a temporary phase whilst the distributor builds their customer base. The first six months is spent delivering in the manner implied in this site until the distributor has a set group of customers. From then on, they deal only with those customers, unless they wish to find more, in which case they will repeat the finding process again on a new area.

Most ex-distributors haven't tried on Kleeneze for more than a couple of months and so have never got past the customer finding stage and don't actually know anything about what they could have potentially earned.

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John E John E Oct 26, 2009 @ 4:27 pm

After being made redundant I did Kleeneze for 12 weeks and only had 100 customers out of a population of 5 000 so my area was saturated. My upline was someone I met on a business course and he told me he was making �800 a month so I thought I would give it a go. What a mug I was.The only good thing is that it keeps you fit and i lost 8 pounds so it could make a good weight loss regime. I made �50 one month bonus but lost so many catalogues total loss was about �500 for 12 weeks work.
Still it kept me busy until I got a proper job with a steady wage. If you do the maths which I did and still went ahead it does not work unless you are the only agent in the area.
20% will buy so out of 5000 customers 1000 should buy but if you have 4 other agents then between you there are 200 customers each. Then if you recruit in your area how are you going to a) increase your own customers and b) how are your recruiters going to get any sales.
The numbers don't add up.

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Dave Dave Nov 20, 2009 @ 4:14 pm

If you lost so many catalogues it was because you were not going back to pick them uo, it's as simple as that! this business works - it's people that don't! Like with any young business, no matter what you set up, you have to give it time, and to me it sounds like you didn't give it time!

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Alan Fisher Alan Fisher Oct 18, 2009 @ 9:34 am | in reply to mrsskint

Email the Kleeneze Service Centre with your question on outlay refund (keep a copy of this and the reply you get should you need to refer to it later).

No. In no way are you obliged to recruit anyone.

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LYN LYN Oct 11, 2009 @ 4:08 pm | in reply to Ex Distributer - D Mac

You know it really is a shame because Kleeneze used to be goodup till about 2005. I made lots of money with it from 1999 but after that it began to slide. Why? I don't know. maybe the rise of good quality pound shops?the internet?maybe there is just a time for all things and its had its day.
Certainly the big times are over when I and many others made loads of money.The people who are still sponsoring are not conning people they are desperately trying to hang on to the businesses that cost them a fortune to set up and maintain.I,m a business person/realist i've moved on to AVON as have lots of kleeneze folks.Thats where it is now.

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mrsskint mrsskint Oct 11, 2009 @ 3:33 am

I have just signed up to start kleeneze.....I, like many others, need some extra cash for christmas. The lady who will be my 'upline' (?) in no way hassled me to sign up. In fact I approached her. In my area there is no saturation....yet anyway. I was just wondering though, after reading all the bad stuff, how does the 14 day cooling off work....for example; if i start delivering immediately and take in orders before the 14 days, could I still cancel? and would I get my initial outlay back? also, I have no interest in signing others up to join...am I obliged to do this?
thanks in advance x

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MrLewisSmile MrLewisSmile Oct 6, 2009 @ 2:01 pm | in reply to Steve Dillon

The second comment written by you above is a quote. The original comment has no possible way to contact you. Would you like me to remove it?

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Ex Distributer - D Mac Ex Distributer - D Mac Oct 6, 2009 @ 9:43 am

Hi everyone, just thought I'd add my piece:
I was a distributer for 6 months and had the same problems as everyone else, lost many catalogues, had poor orders and ended up seriously out of pocket. I WAS taken in by the ususal brainwashing I had from my spnsors and it took me the 6 months to realise thats what Kleeneze does.

Why hasn't a programme like the BBC's Watchdog done a report on the scandal that is Kleeneze - as I'm sure it has caused great deals of greif and financial loss for more than just us on here - and it might give the public a better impression before the evil recruiters get to them and they waste their time and money on false hopes and dreams.

I'm not one for writing into these consumer programmes but I think someone should - It'd make really interesting television and I'd love to see Anne Robertson interrogate some of the network leaders or Kleeneze's management.

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First Impressions Count First Impressions Count Oct 5, 2009 @ 3:06 am | in reply to in reply to observer

Happy to leave the last words with you (and the impressions you've made)

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Tom Tom Oct 4, 2009 @ 6:31 pm

So going back to your original claim, Kleeneze don't deliver the catalogues for free unless you order 250 pounds worth of them!
Either way it does not justify the extortionate rate they charge them out to their agents does it? Under 10 pounds to produce and sold at 34 pound!.

When starting out it can take a very long time to collect over 200 pounds of orders and I am speaking from bitter experience, nearly a month in my case so to try and deliver any type of prompt service you have to pay delivery charges or expect your customers to wait a month for their goods.

No matter how infrequent you place orders it still does not stop Kleeneze from charging another 7.50p per month to be able to use their site.

All these charges mount up and unless you are lucky enough to be picking up decent orders it soon swallows up what little commission you make.

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Steve Dillon Steve Dillon Oct 2, 2009 @ 2:37 pm

The second comment at the top of the page was made by me BUT NOT ON THIS SITE. Please have the courtesy to ask and remove this until you have my consent.

S Dillon

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in reply to observer in reply to observer Oct 2, 2009 @ 2:35 am | in reply to First Impressions Count

6 days? so you checked for a solid 6 days did you? I never noticed it and go there every day - you don't do Kleeneze but still wnet there - yeah right.

Childish? very frankly - nothing to do with business just more pathetic sourgrapes.

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Upon the catalogues Upon the catalogues Oct 2, 2009 @ 2:32 am | in reply to Tom

No just the whole order including books needs to come to 250, so a 220 plus books would cover it. I've never put an order in for less than 250 - what'd be the point? I'd hold it over till I got enough orders.

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Tom Tom Oct 1, 2009 @ 7:13 pm | in reply to Upon lost books

You get your catalogues delivered FREE ?

It costs me 12.50p delivery charge for a box of catalogues! unless I attach them to an order of over 250 pound, either way a 65% mark up in price is disgraceful considering how many you loose at first and how few orders you can get at times.

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First Impressions Count First Impressions Count Sep 30, 2009 @ 4:55 am | in reply to In reply to observer

Indeed it is now correct. (after, was it 6 days?)
Childish or Constructive ? No big deal or Important?
Different people have different commercial outlooks and will form their own impressions.

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Upon lost books Upon lost books Sep 30, 2009 @ 2:50 am | in reply to Tom

After 5 months given a 5 week round you should have missed out all the ones that didn't give back the books by now, given that you'd be going to the same roads every 5 weeks. Even my worst area with boarded up houses and burnt out cars I can get nearly all of a 300 drop back perhpas losing 10 - but the next time I won't lose even those as I'll ignore that house. I knock on the doors and if they aren't in I put a leaflet through - then I go back and knock again. I lose most books on my regular balnket drops to new areas but those are really old books sometimes 12 months old and I use the new codes for the items. I buy a new box every 6 -7 weeks on average - once the customer base is established losses drop to almost zero.

As to the cost of the books whilst your friend might print them for a �10 though I doubt it he would send them anywhere in the UK for free , they weigh 10Kg .

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Tom Tom Sep 29, 2009 @ 7:30 am

[in reply to Upon Lost Catalogues
On the subject of lost books, how may times have you been back for them, have you gone at different times of the day?
Four times, but difficult when you work as well!
Do you use the *Sorry I missed you* slips?
Yes makes little difference!
In the first weeks lost books are inevitable, but you'll never lose one there again and many will turn up in the following days if you hunt them down.
Weeks??Been in 5 months and still losing loads!
As the round progresses losses get fewer and fewer till in the end you have to throw the books as they really are too tatty to use
I would be so lucky, they always look new because I am forever replacing them and at 34 pound a box I am beginning to wonder if Kleeneze make most of their profits selling the books instead of goods. I have been told by my friend in the printing trade the books cost less than 10 pound a box to produce, disgraceful mark up in price considering how many you loose.

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In reply to observer In reply to observer Sep 29, 2009 @ 6:52 am | in reply to First Impressions Count

The new front page was in Beta a few days ago perhpas you saw that then, it isn't there now. So a web developer made a typo ? Big deal - the BBC have typos all the time - It in no way reflects on the Kleeneze business or it's viability.

What your post actually brings to the discussion I don't know - a childish pop at Kleeneze , please try harder.

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Upon Lost Catalogues Upon Lost Catalogues Sep 24, 2009 @ 8:06 am

On the subject of lost books, how may times have you been back for them, have you gone at different times of the day? Do you use the *Sorry I missed you* slips? In the first weeks lost books are inevitable, but you'll never lose one there again and many will turn up in the following days if you hunt them down. As the round progresses losses get fewer and fewer till in the end you have to throw the books as they really are too tatty to use - but I use them even when they are 6 moths out of date as much of the stuff is still available. Hard at first but not Kleenezes fault at all, out of a 1000 drops in the last 7 days I've lost 10 books if that and a few of them may yet turn up. Place really old books under something heavy to make them flat again and a new bag they look as good as new!

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First Impressions Count First Impressions Count Sep 23, 2009 @ 11:36 pm | in reply to in reply to obsertver cont...

I understand that an expensive TV ad campaign is currently underway to increase brand awareness to millions of people.
Maybe "more bods in the office" would have spotted that the first thing all these people will see on the home page of the company website is "Great Produts"
Shouldn't this be PRODUCTS (spelt with a C)?
"Doh"

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John Dedman John Dedman Sep 22, 2009 @ 3:48 am

I am a new Kleeneze distributor.

So far to date, I have lost so many catalogues to date. My sponsor says put out 250 catalogues a week, every week. If I am losing about 30-40 catalogues a week, I am going to have to spend lot of my, yes my cash when I haven't even earned one single penny propping up my business. Sounds like a sure good way to get bankrupt. How on earth am I supposed to replace catalogues which the nice kind bureaucrats in Kleeneze palace want us to pay for, if I haven't got any orders in the first place. Sheer utter lunacy.

Has any of these no doubt Porsche driving slick Kleeneze bureaucrats in Kleeneze palace ever done a distributor round themselves. Do they realise the problems re lost catalogues, and angry public who glare at us when we are about to shove one of our catalogues through their door.

No, and I bet if you asked one of the top execs from Kleeneze palace to spend a week with a Kleeneze distributor- I bet they would say no.

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annoyed distributor annoyed distributor Sep 17, 2009 @ 6:39 am

I joined kleeneze in july of this year and pumped about 400 euro into my company to get catalogues, i put in my first order after two weeks and spending about 100 euro in petrol fees. i made no money at all, i made a loss actually. basically i would say that i was brainwashed into believing that the company was viable, i lost every single catalogue on my first drop and had no help from my leader at all. i made my first payment on time and waited for it to show up on my account. it never did and still hasnt, i am now being contacted by debt collectors, kleeneze has no record of my transaction even though i had my name and distributor number on the giro they sent me. i dont know what to do but i beg people not to join this company as it is a black pit that takes all your money and time and gets you stressed out big time.

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Observer (the original one) Observer (the original one) Sep 16, 2009 @ 6:59 am | in reply to in reply to obsertver cont...

The excercise referred to in my comments on May 15 has now finished and conclusions have been drawn.
I havn't seen anything on here since that would cause me to alter them, however thanks for your response.
It will be up to others to make their own judgment on your answers and the accuracy and validity of them.
Good Luck.

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Alan Fisher Alan Fisher Sep 16, 2009 @ 4:37 am | in reply to Danny

Hello Danny. Totally agree with you about the sponsoring. Perhaps because of the reputation it could now have. Why do you now never see ads. etc. that actually refer upfront to Kleeneze? (and I dont buy the the silly suggestion that people may think its a cleaning job!) I've actually seen competition ads that make big play of the the fact that this is NOT Kleeneze!
The scary thing for me is that I'm now seeing the same sort of reaction on the retailing side. (in a lot of cases because of one to many product returns.)
And this "brand" is now having �250000 spent on it? I wonder if the money would be better spent on REBRANDING it?
Oh well. I suppose Findel know what they're doing.

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Danny Danny Sep 14, 2009 @ 6:08 pm | in reply to scott keable

Cont..
I was at the Kleeneze conference last week at the NIA in Birmingham when the director of Kleeneze had to admit on stage that sponsoring had fallen even though we were in the middle of a recession when more people than ever were looking to earn "an extra income"?
It would have been foolish to try and convince the audience of Kleeneze agents otherwise when the total in the arena has now shrunk down to 3,000 and when I started just over 3 years ago there were over 6,000 at the same event!
When I was having lunch, my sponsor himself looked a little worried and said he had never seen the numbers so low. When they started 5 years ago, more than 8,000 used to attend.
In the 3 years I have been in the turnover and number of agents must have dropped by around 40% according to Kleenezes own figures, so now I just do my retail round and wait for the sad day when Kleeneze disappears altogether. I am just glad I don't now have to rely on Kleeneze for a wage.

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Danny Danny Sep 14, 2009 @ 5:54 pm | in reply to scott keable

I think it may be yourself that has not got a clue or you need to be in a bit longer before you can back up statements like that.

My first year in Kleeneze went quite well, I hit 21% and had 9 in my team including family and friends. I followed my uplines advice to the letter and had quite a good retail total of around 1500 pound a month.
The next 2 years in the business it became harder and harder to try and build my team from the "cold market" and also convince my family and friends to stick with it and give it time, even though I could see a few of them were doing the work but not getting the results they deserved.
I still managed to hit Gold but by now it was taking well over double the time and effort it used to. I then watched it all disappear even though I was spending 200 a month on adverts and attended any meeting I thought would help.
Cont...

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Alan Fisher Alan Fisher Sep 14, 2009 @ 1:04 am | in reply to scott keable

I suppose that intelligent people will be capable of making up their own minds as to wether the comments on this site are negative,blinkered, or realistic, after looking at all the contributions.

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scott keable scott keable Sep 13, 2009 @ 11:21 am

some people are so blinded by other people, this business works and to be honest i couldnt even be bothered to read the negative article obviously this person has not done kleeneze and if they have they are one of the people that think they know better than the system and have tried to do it all alone........
i have followed all advice from my upline and am now in only 6 months building a very sucessful business.

The people that moan about this are the people who just dont have a clue.

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LYN LYN Sep 12, 2009 @ 2:03 pm

[in reply to in reply to obsertver cont Ileft after 10years 7 as an executive .I made a lot of money and the reason for moving to Avon was that it became difficult to do what it had once been easy to do,sponsor and build teams. No axe to grind just facts that are reflected in the figures that speak for themselves.Good retail left but sponsoring costing too much for what it brings in.Just make sure when your digging a gold mine its not just a hole in the ground. Check your own results not someone like me who built their business when it was easy when I was doing 50,000 a period and going on international conferences.its a different business now to what it was. just stop and think a bit.

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On the Meetings etc On the Meetings etc Sep 5, 2009 @ 8:42 am

Frankly if anyone goes to more than one meeting or goes *not* just to see friends have a drink or perhpas buy bits of kit then they have only themselves to blame. If they went to Rob Fosters and paid out ( for the record he gives the money to charity) to sit and listen to re hashed American motivational speeches then it's your own fault. No one forced anyone to go at gunpoint. I just say *no thanks* and put nearly �3500 of orders in every period. Fill in the self certification Tax forms correctly and the tax man gives *you* money back - I got �250 last year!!

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in reply to obsertver cont... in reply to obsertver cont... Sep 5, 2009 @ 8:33 am

11) So the question is do we do away with incentives open to all and have more bods in the office? **Doh** springs to mind here, the incentive system is the biggest aid to Kleeneze sales they have - the big rush to get that finla level means loads of extra sales for KLeeneze. It'd be madnees to do away with it for *another* tier of management.

12) Of course it's reasonabe to ask questions but some of these are a bit well...........frankly - it's door to door catalogues not NASA.

Given some of the comments here, much of it *sour grapes* against actual indviduals from people who missed out and want someone to blame. Just remember people here running it down who were in it for years have AXES to grind and so their judgement is flawed to say the least. No one put a gun to their heads - I make a good living and havn't been to a meeting for 12 months let alone a conference!

Hope this helps!

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reply to observers questions continued reply to observers questions continued Sep 5, 2009 @ 8:17 am

5) Yes I do , regardless of the wild claims made here , otherwise how did somone I know start in 2008 and have already as good as qualified for the next overseas trip?

6) earlier in the year as part of the *goldrush* campaign Kleeneze sent returned atalogues to gold distributors to either dish out as they saw fit or use to boost sales. They could be resold so it was good to re use them - I was offered some by my gold but have more than I can handle
7) not a permanent VAT change - imagine all the re printing of paperwork that would be needed for a temporary change?

8) Seems to work for kleeneze , the stuff sells.

9) At Kleeneze HQ there is , not really much to do with the frontline really

10) *lead in paints? * in the 1950's perhaps , KLZ import the stuff and being a reputable business it complies with regulations and trading standards. they sell it to me and I sell it on , if it wasn't fit for purpose it wouldn't be in the book. Mountains & Molehills leapt to mind

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In reply to observers questions In reply to observers questions Sep 5, 2009 @ 7:51 am

I'll give it a go , 1) Whatever this *current legislation * is you speak of , I very much doubt it'll be extended just to curtail Kleeneze, it would affect Avon, Betterware and lots of other businesses that operate door to door. It'd be a daft goverment indeed to do this just placate a few numpties who think geting a catalogue is the end of the world.
2) If you reach the highest levels in Kleeneze , Bronze and above you'll get residual income, plain and simple.
3) Pretty obviously the cheques shown are Gross, as they are the Kleeneze printouts, how much each person spends on everything is upto them and them alone - I spend nothing so I trouser the cash!

4) Yes it would be unfair, all you need is the catalogues , given that orders over 250 are free it probably costs �30 to send everyone of my massive orders. You don't need all the rest of the stuff from Kleeneze like sanppy bags and carriers bags etc. I doubt the money they get covers it all .

I'll start a new thingy

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Alan Fisher Alan Fisher Sep 5, 2009 @ 4:52 am | in reply to M

Sound advice and its nice to see some real training going on.

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Insider Insider Sep 4, 2009 @ 1:02 pm | in reply to Another observer

If I was a level headed,rational,serious, and business wise individual conducting proper research into wether or not I should join your organisation your comments and the manner in which you make them (put alongside others on this site,and elsewhere) would be the deciding factor in my decision.

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Les Burrows Les Burrows Sep 4, 2009 @ 6:34 am

[Sounds good your.move to Avon,is it still going well ?I am looking at KLEENEZ,but would consider a look at AVON I pressume being a man does not affect sales ,regards LES bURROWSreply to frank dawber]

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Another observer Another observer Sep 3, 2009 @ 5:34 pm

The bile is dripping off the pages here. If you don't want to sponsor, then don't do it. You have to be over 18 to join so that assumes you are legally responsible for the decisions you make. So why are you blaming others for your failures? If you want money, you have to work for it. If you want the big money, you have to do whatever it takes and however long it takes to earn it. Some learn fast, some slow, but everyone has the ability. What is lacking here is the will to do it. You all want to blame someone and not one bile-filled comment here has admitted that maybe they just didn't have it in them to do whatever it takes. You cannot blame anyone else - it is what it is. Suck it up or bow out.

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M M Sep 3, 2009 @ 3:36 pm

I joined Kleeneze earlier this year, I also have 3 friends in Kleeneze who have had very different experiences. A joined Kleeneze over a year ago and gave up because it was costing her money and not earning (losing cats). B started 5 years ago and I joined his team because I saw he was successful. C saw that I was making money and joined my team.
You have to make business decisions. I have been taught to make money through retail first and then sponsoring. C would not join me if I was loosing money, and I would not recommend it if I was. If anyone in my team is loosing cats I tell them to stop and find out why, I don't say buy more. A was told to keep buying more cats, wrong. A had a bad team leader.
My advice, make sure you have a team leader that coaches well rather than recruits in bulk. Make sure your leader is not living in 1991. Ask the questions, a good sponsor won't hide the facts they don't have to. A bad sponsor will lie and will not focus on getting you profits just himself.

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FRED FRED Sep 2, 2009 @ 9:02 am

I was a distributor for 7 years.I listened to my upline and followed the instructions- 'the wheel is round don't change the formula'-in other words follow like leamings! I had a team of some 20/30 people at the peak of the business and 'earned' around �3K per month-HA HA.Buying and replacing catalogues, petrol, paying to attend meetings-the 'top earners' run the meetings but charge you to attend, there's advertising, printing, home meetings, running meetings away from home etc. Eventually due to ill health I couldn't look after the team and finished up with just a retail round, which I did as long as I could-many of my customers were elderly and had become friends so I felt obliged. I did everything by the book, kept accounts, and was honest with the Tax Man - I AM STILL PAYING THE TAX instalments on my last bill. So if you are thinking of joining Kleeneze-ask questions about HIDDEN costs - there are TOO MANY for the bottom people to earn money -you will end up out of pocket.

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Insider Insider Aug 28, 2009 @ 6:56 am | in reply to Riverstone

"So many new starters quit because it is totally mis sold".
There is a huge pool of people who,because of their circumstances,are very open to persuasion because they see and hear what they want to see and hear. Many have so convinced themselves that they won't even do their own basic sensible research because they are frightened that they will find something that is the opposite of what they want to believe.
For example: they are highly vulnerable to the (unregulated section) of the "franchise" industry.
Many of these contain a sprinkling of tame "successful" franchisees towards which they are guided to get the confirmation that they themselves want to hear.
This is often orchestrated by a sort of "franchise developement /sales manager" figure who's actual role is to earn a percentage of the joining fees and the inevitable ongoing "management" fees and indeed any other costs for various "services" and other "essentials" needed to operate the business.

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Concerned Concerned Aug 26, 2009 @ 5:45 am | in reply to frank dawber

Is it possible for a bloke to do Avon?

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tired distributor tired distributor Aug 25, 2009 @ 10:42 am | in reply to sweet_girl2104

[in reply to sweet_girl2104] Sounds very much like me!! So many of us lose sight of the real strength of Kleeneze and that is after developing a customer base -(yes it takes time, patience and determination) the rewards from having a sound customer base are quite remarkable. I love this side of the business -always have but took it for granted whilst trying to build a big team and I'm ashamed to say I also took my customers a bit for granted.Now just like you back to basics - and it suits me fine. A number of my customers have bought from me every time I have called over the last 12 years - quite remarkable!! If they do not see me for 3 months or more they are ringing me to s

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frank dawber frank dawber Aug 24, 2009 @ 6:36 pm

Well ..i finally got kicked out of Kleeneze.....got to gold 7 years ago but likened it to spinning plates as in a circus...as soon as you stopped spinning em they dropped off....got divorced so packed in.............signed up again 2 years ago....200 books out..lost 45....got 100 in orders......30 returned bad payers 40 returned for being poor value for money...i was so disgusted with the xmas stuff..like a third of the price in local shops[identical gear] i stopped retailing.......it's overpriced crap.......the good gear you only use once..consign it to the back of a shelf and car boot it 5 years time as ''as new condition'' it it coz it's only been used once.....now i do Avon..this weeks order 200 books out[cost 21 quid] not 120 kleeneze.......115 orders totalling 1450 pounds....and i'm loving it..unlike kleeneze where the majority of customers have 1 leg in the grave..Avon customers are from 1 too 100[my oldest.......and it's now multi level....kleeneze R.I.P

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jimmy jimmy Aug 24, 2009 @ 2:50 pm | in reply to LYN

Hi Lyn,
I got to gold distributor level after some serious hard work and big retail.
I quickly discovered what a waste of time sponsoring was as my team quit one by one and I astonished myself one night by calculating how many thousands I had spent on the sponsoring side.
I just retail my established customer base and earn a few hundred a month by keeping all costs to a minimum.
I don't bother with the bull shit meetings anymore and agree with you 100%, that the Avon system is the way for Kleeneze to go. They should get rid of the parasites in the business like my sponsors Eamon and marie and let the honest hardworking distributors who get up of the arse and generate good sales each month have a bigger contribution to the way the business is run.

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sweet_girl2104 sweet_girl2104 Aug 24, 2009 @ 5:26 am

oh dear such a bad press for kleeneze
are there really no positives for the company?
i mean for people to be at the top something must work surely
i dont know much im just a pavement pounder
i hate my up line
i cant sponsor
not sure i want to either
i just do what i do for a little extra cash for now till i can go back to what i do best
i have to say i took 3 months off at start of yr cos of ill health and when i went back my customer base was still as strong lucky i guess
i dont do meetings i think they full of crap too all self back patting
first one i went to not one single person spoke to me not even the head of my team so i pretty much got the picture from then on in
i do my bit for me and my customers now
they buy what they want and i earn a little from it
as for climbing the ladder .......... i dont like heights !!
just my thoughts

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Riverstone Riverstone Aug 17, 2009 @ 1:41 pm | in reply to Alan Fisher

will do!

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Riverstone Riverstone Aug 17, 2009 @ 1:13 pm | in reply to ROBERT

It would'nt supprise me one bit if at least 2 or more than likley all 5 of the distributors were in your upline's team.Thank you for getting back Robert & the very best of luck.

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ROBERT ROBERT Aug 17, 2009 @ 10:43 am

hi riverstone.
well there was at least 5 other distributers in my area of which 2 of them told me to get off there road.
out of 100 catalogues i got back about 75 with no more than 5 with orders no more than 50 euro of orders.
i rang my sponserer on a number of occasions about this and all he said to me was put the catalogues out keep putting them out and when i told him i was quitting he was quite rude he said something like i didnt have the staying power, i was quit annoyed.
also i was never ever told that u need to make orders over 375 euro in order for free delivery i only noticed it when i made 320 euro of orders in july that i was charged 10 euro so i was not getting my 21% linier income as they promised.
also to be truthfully honest i have never met 1 person at the meetings or the conferences that has been sucessful in kleeneze without a car.
if you are thinking of joining i advise you to re-consider as it is extremenly stressful i found.
any other questions please ask.

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Alan Fisher Alan Fisher Aug 17, 2009 @ 5:05 am | in reply to Riverstone

Keep us posted

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Riverstone Riverstone Aug 16, 2009 @ 11:16 am | in reply to Doctor Who

Hi Doc,I totally agree I would be banging my head against a brick wall trying to get this over with some of the lot in the ''team''I would love to see the looks on some of the faces of uplines etc in the meetings getting them to expain in exact(& truthful) detail how somone can(legally)earn some of the amounts stated easily,the mis selling,mis informing,throwing people in & watching them sink & glazing the whole thing over is now turning in on it's self & the beast is bitting it's own arse,Im looking into & working on ways to help new starters/retailers(who are just looking to earn some extra money) with a genuine support system,a real understanding of the business,what & in some cases who to avoid but it's work in progress at the mo.

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Riverstone Riverstone Aug 16, 2009 @ 10:25 am | in reply to Alan Fisher

Hi Alan,A good question is there such a trainning program?the first ''meeting'' I went to I was told to practically ignore retail & sponser asap(kinda like trainning people to be hair dressers when you've just bought a sissors)In fact it's one of the recruitment pitches''this business does not involve selling''HHHMMM,badgering friends & family to join the business,handing out leaflets,putting them on cars,through peoples doors,going around houses with dvds(but not giving the full picture) sounds like selling to me.

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Riverstone Riverstone Aug 16, 2009 @ 10:02 am | in reply to ROBERT

Hi Robert,a few questions if you've got a min
Your orders were low,was there another distributor in your area or just no interest in the products?
Were you full time or part time?
Were you given a plan b(other ways of retailing)
Did your sponser support you in any way?
Were you offered any help when you had problems?
How was the business sold to you?
You mentioned you dont have transport,did your sponser have any solution for you to do this without a car?
Were you told of people who are successful in the business who dont have cars & given examples of how they did it?
Your info would be of great use.Thank you!
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