Meetings Anonymous: Cult or Cure
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Alcoholic Anonymous: Bad medicine
If your struggling with addiction there are not many choices out there for you besides the 12 step Anonymous meetings where you may find you are worshiping more than recovering. I my self was deemed a Alcoholic on was shocked to find there were so few options available . It reminded my of the Stepford Wives where everyone seemed to be like robots under the control of some spell cast by lies. Even pastors, Churches, Christians.. everyone, told me it was the only way. But, is it? And, what is it.. A religion, philosophy or therapy?
Alcoholic meetings articles
Kingez blog : escaping the pragmatic for the eternal
Here is a article series i did on the KingEz blog which looks for the new american dream by escaping the pragmatism of the temporal for the rewards of the eternal. There is a full series of research on AA as a religion.
Fetching RSS feed... please stand byAA: Cult of the stolen God
Is Alcoholic Anonymous a religion?
Most all cults are leaches on the backs of a successful religion. They twist the religion to work for their purposes and not that of what it was intended for. Alcoholic Anonymous God was founded on "Christian God," but allowing any God even Alcoholic Anonymous itself..
I think it strange that the only two notable mass cult suicides in the last 40 years were AA cults or AA or Rehab related. Jonestown suicide and hevens gate were both AA or Rehab cults. HeavensGate was a AA group, and the church from Jonestown was one of the biggest rehabs in New York. but u can't prove anything by that. Just interesting. Hey and it worked too, no Alcoholics or Attics now.
- AA is the only way.
- No one graduates form AA.
- AA or you will Die. B. Willson
- You must completely follow the doctrine of 12 steps and Big Book or you will fail.
- We will be your God. ( this is the big one, if you can not decide on a groovy higher power, then the group will offer to be that higher power till you pick one)
AA is a cult Christian tainted Polytheism or at the least pantheism
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytheism) with no doubt the don't acknowledge this or even seem to see it this.:
{Websters: Cult
3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious ; also : its body of adherents
4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator
5 a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work ; especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b:the object of such devotion c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion
If you want to read detailed articles: kingez
For detail deep research on the AA movement go to: orange papers
Some good resources
Books to look at before you jump into AA
Here are some good books to look at. Some are on God's gift of wine, which I feel that understanding the true nature of something, sometimes changes your outlook on your own sufferings as an addict.
New Flickr Photos
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An older video on Alcoholics anonymous exploring it's cultish beliefs
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ezravan
Nov 25, 2009 @ 1:16 am | delete
- My Squidoo is a work in progress.. hopefully over the holiday i can hit it agin.
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BikerPagan
Nov 24, 2009 @ 1:46 am | delete
- Read through your article cult of a stolen god. You might want to try google to get some of the facts correct. AA was founded by William Griffith Wilson and Robert Holbrook Smith. I cant seem to find any references to Bill Williams. Heaven's Gate was UFO cult based in San Diego Ca. I cant find anything linking them to AA. The Jonestown cult (Peoples Temple) was founded in 1955 by James Warren Jones moved to SanFransisco CA in 1965 and to Guyana in 1977. Once again I cant find anything in their history linking them to AA.
While your blog page looks very nice, I would suggest that you get a spell check program. I have read some of the books you have suggested and am familar with the orange papers, the author seems angry to me. Whether or not AA is a religion does not matter to me. The first amendment to the constitution of the United States affords us freedom OF religion. That being said I dont think that the government (court system) should force people to go to AA.
In the book Alcoholics Anonymous, it states that they do not have a monopoly on staying sober. They state that if you can do a right about face and drink like a gentlman their hats are off to you. You mentioned the Moderation Movement (MM) founed by Audrey Kishline, who on March 25, 2000 killed a 38 year old man with her pick up truck. Her blood alcohol was 3 times the legal limit. Enough said about MM.
Having read your article about your " friends" you had dinner with you make it clear that you are a christian, so lets take a look at that. You can look this up in the christian book of mythology (bible)
Your god requires: Blood sacrifice, subjagtion of women, anialation of cities slaughter of multitudes,unquestioned obedience, murder of his own son and as a grand finally he plans to destroy the world by fire. And people ask my why Im pagan I just dont get it.
Blood
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ezravan
Nov 25, 2009 @ 12:49 pm | delete
- Read through your article cult of a stolen god. You might want to try google to get some of the facts correct. AA was founded by William Griffith Wilson and Robert Holbrook Smith. I cant seem to find any references to Bill Williams. Heaven's Gate was UFO cult based in San Diego Ca. I cant find anything linking them to AA. The Jonestown cult (Peoples Temple) was founded in 1955 by James Warren Jones moved to SanFransisco CA in 1965 and to Guyana in 1977. Once again I cant find anything in their history linking them to AA.
I don't understand.. are you showing what a great google'r you are? I don't make reference to dates, or care much for them for this purpose. I'm not a wikipedia. Yes, your right though.. i need to link better. These articles where written a few years ago on paper, my site is about 3 -4 weeks old, so give me some time while i try to get all the articles brushed up for the web. As far as Heaven's Gate can't find the source. .. I guess you win the whole argument ;) I removed it till i hae time to drum through the books. Jonsetown is very well known (to kings like me) to have been one of the biggest rehab centers in New York.. also a reference on wikipedia i don't care where they started or ended.
While your blog page looks very nice, I would suggest that you get a spell check program.
I don't use spell checkers they make me itch
I have read some of the books you have suggested and am familar with the orange papers, the author seems angry to me.
Anger my friend is one of the safest emotions we have
whether or not AA is a religion does not matter to me.
Thats cool.. than it's not directed to you then. Your a grown man, you can decide to be in any religion.
In the book Alcoholics Anonymous, it states that they do not have a monopoly on staying sober. They state that if you can do a right about face and drink like a gentlman their hats are off to you.
Yes.. that's what they say don't they.. they say that in any cult, and especially if their cornered.. the do course, mock, be little embarrass.. i've seen to my face and hae read much about it.. and they be little us poor bastards because we were not born as strong as Jimbo. From the horses mouth:
RARELY HAVE we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are those who cannot or will not give themselves completely to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way.
A.A. Big Book, 3rd & 4th Editions, William G. Wilson, page 58.
You mentioned the Moderation Movement (MM) founed by Audrey Kishline, who on March 25, 2000 killed a 38 year old man with her pick up truck. Her blood alcohol was 3 times the legal limit. Enough said about MM.
Low blow bro.. be careful i might say some of real embarrassing facts about your leader, what you say his name was.. oh, Bill Wilson who begged for whiskey at the end of his life.. but faithful AA'ers.. what? Thought he'd go hell for it? makes no sense.. but it's a good idea not to invite your 12 step baddie over when your getting ready to split. The fact is, that no teacher in all history made it through life without stumbling over his own chin.. well except that one obsessed with blood. MM has some good resources.. and you'll be abel to have that whiskey when you die.
Your god requires: Blood sacrifice, subjagtion of women, anialation of cities slaughter of multitudes,unquestioned obedience, murder of his own son and as a grand finally he plans to destroy the world by fire. And people ask my why Im pagan I just dont get it.
Blood
Well you got me there.. That sounds exactly like my God.
I've continued this post on kingez.com
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BikerPagan
Nov 24, 2009 @ 12:38 am | delete
- The jonestown cult( Peoples Temple) was founded in 1955 in Indianapolis In by James Warren Jones. From there they moved to San Fransisco CA in 1965 and in 1977 to Guyana.
I wonder what other things you are stating as fact are not?
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soberguy
Nov 23, 2009 @ 7:00 pm | delete
- Deciding that you are a member of a 12 step group in no way restricts you from belonging to any outside religious organization. I know many Christians, Jews, and Buddhist who work the steps. In my experience it is encouraged from both sides. Yes the 12 step groups are like a religions in some ways and like a cults in others but the fact still stands that a lot of addicts recover form addiction in the rooms of 12 step groups. What makes 12 step groups unique is that they have but one primary purpose. That is to stay sober and to help others to achieve sobriety. Not to take your money or save your soul.
Now the "greater good of society" quote?? What I have experienced in 12 step groups are people who were like myself a burden to society and now they are productive sober members of their communities. Not locked up in jail or detoxing in a public hospital once a month at the taxpayers expense . Also they are no longer driving the car next to you at the stop light in the morning sipping vodka & orange juice out of their travel mugs. These people finding help in the 12 steps doesn't sound to me like a bad thing for society as a whole. Even the US court system mandates DWI offenders to attend 12 step meetings (which I personally don't agree with). I do not think that the United States Constitution allows for the courts to require anyone attend a "religious organization"? Surely if this was the case we would hear a lot more about this than what you have posted on this page.
Now you say that the steps do not look for the the truth. Yet you do not state what the truth is? Lets say you were to believe that your brand of religion was the one and only truth and society as a whole would benefit from your brand of religion if they would only believe and act as you do. Now your argument against the 12 steps or any other view point besides the ones your religion holds would be understood. (Talk about an old argument) That would uncover a whole new meaning behind this "Cult or Cure" page.
By the way you have yet to mention how you found a solution to your own addiction troubles. If you have another solution I would not be opposed to it. Anything that is proven to work should be recognized and promoted. It seems to me that this would be a good place to post a positive message about a solution for addiction instead of a lot of stuff about what's wrong with the 12 steps. Most of the people stumbling across this page will have a close relationship with addiction troubles whether it be their own or that of a loved one and are probably looking for help. I know that their are many alternatives to the 12 steps and no doubt that there are many success stories. People have been getting sober long before the 12 steps were written. Any recovery from the depths of addiction is in my mind a miracle and should be celebrated as such. I would hate for you to turn away people from a program that works with out leaving them an alternative beside a book on how to moderate their drinking (which is the delusion of most every alcoholic). Addiction is a horrible disease and anything that helps the lives of those who still suffer from this hopeless state of mind and body should not be over looked.
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