Remembering The Kanji: Good or Bad?
Ranked #2,868 in Books, Poetry & Writing, #105,965 overall
THE BOOK REMEMBERING THE KANJI BY JAMES HEISIG IS BAD FOR LEARNING KANJI AND THE JAPANESE LANGUAGE!
Whatever gave James Heisig the idea of not including the pronunciations along with the characters in the first place...? Look at how Japanese people see the kanji characters: They don't associate silly stories and meanings to them; they associate sounds and words to them! And from my own experience, as my Japanese language skills have evolved - an I'm essentially fluent now! - that's how it has become for me as well.
WHY REMEMBERING THE KANJI SUCKS
- You waste time memorizing silly mnemonics.
- You waste time remembering kanji "primitives" that are completely made up.
- All the repetition you do could have been better spent repeating vocabulary instead.
- Heisig's order of learning kanji is stupid. You learn difficult ones too fast, and save needed ones for last.
- The best way to learn Japanese kanji is to use them in context. So learn lots of words and they will come to you.
- Japanese is better learned studying all aspects concurrently. Focusing on one bit (kanji meanings) will automatically lead to neglect of the rest. Grammar, conversation, reading, writing, kanji etc. all hangs together.
- Silly stories in your head is a waste of effort in learning Japanese.
In the end, you know 2042 stupid stories that you have no use for.
THE BOOK THAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT
Remembering the Kanji, Vol. 1: A Complete Course on How Not to Forget the Meaning and Writing of Japanese Characters
Amazon Price: $217.74 (as of 02/17/2012)
WHAT DO YOU THINK?
Remembering The Kanji sucks!
Fetching blurbs now... please stand byYes, it sucks!
Lyn says:
I think learning kanji with a lot of vocabulary to support it helps a lot more than associating a story with it. These associations sometimes totally divert your attention from the important things about kanji.
Posted January 17, 2012
Geckomayhem says:
Yeah, I tried it a few years ago, when I first started, but kinda got overwhelmed. And since learning a couple of hundred kanji since then, I've found that it makes more sense for me to associate the parts of kanji to things I give names to in order to remember how to write them; and I try to use the ones I'm learning in context, just as they do at school in Japan, along with the various readings.
I guess Heisig's method works for some, but after having been learning kanji on and off for about three years now, I've come to realise that it's too much effort, in too strange a way, to make it worthwhile. It's easier to remember in your own way than to make up silly mnemonics that take too much brain power in the first place. Recognition is better to start off with than absolute fluent stroke memorisation.
My advice as someone who still feels like he is in the beginner stage (of all things Japanese) after three and a half frustrating years of self-study is to do kanji at your own pace. Try to remember how to read stuff in context and the writing will come with enough usage. It will take forever to stick 2k kanji into your head, but in the meantime you should be brushing up on all the skills anyway. :)
Posted December 11, 2011
Wes says:
Just a follow-up after reading the last 'It Rocks' post by nagz. A RTK enthusiast. 'while japanese kids need to learn "weekday" with its 18 strokes in 1st year.' - Japanese kids learn ? in their first year as they see it every day on the school blackboard. They don't care it has 18 strokes either, they just learn it. It also doesn't mean 'weekday'. By itself it's quite rare in Japanese. it is pronounced yao in Chinese and it means sunlight or shining-body. Only combined with the character for Sun or Day ? (hi) does it become youbi and mean day of the week (Shining Light - Day). I guess you just don't find this stuff in RTK...
Posted September 08, 2011
Wes says:
Maybe it's just the way my brain is wired but I struggle to visualise things in my head, the stories get in the way and I couldn't remember anything. I really tried and got through about half of the book but with terrible recall even after spending a long time on it. Instead I went back to 'Rote' learning. Studying 5 / reviewing 5 a day with their kun/onyomi readings too. Maybe a slower method but after almost a year I can identify 1500 kanji (in Japanese school order) and use their on/kun readings as appropriate. I think each to his own.
Posted September 08, 2011
Theusu says:
Well guys, im starting, but looking how i've learned kana, i think that RtK have a waste of time, because i've learned them (kana) associating with words at the kana & manga book!
Posted September 10, 2010
ニケ says:
My Japanese language adventure has been a Heisig-free journey! I did have a look at RTK and read the intro, but decided it wasn't my cup of tea. Heisig's mnemonics and his kanji order seemed artificial to me. It feels very natural to learn kanji in context, and to build on kanji knowledge along with the other aspects of the language. I look up kanji for words I already know or want to learn, and may try to write them, have a look at other words using the kanji or at the different readings - I love browsing the dictionary. I do not spend time drilling either words, kanji strokes or readings, and I feel enough "sticks" in my brain anyway. My goal is not to be able to remember all kanji, but to develop overall Japanese language skills at my own pace. I find I do sometimes use mnemonics to remember kanji or kana, but then they are my own associations and it happens naturally. Each to their own, but I don't see the need for RTK in my studies at all.
Posted August 27, 2010
Chris says:
It's ridiculous to assume that you can attain fluency while ignorantly leaving out fundamental aspects of learning a language. Heisig does not cover word compounds, pronunciation, or utilization in sentences. I cannot stress enough that followers of Heisig are sacrificing the ability to use what they've learned in multiple methods ie: conversation and listening for speed in learning kanji. The language has no shortcuts. After trying Heisig's method, I realized I was using english references to make connections in Japanese. This maybe helpful temporarily but I'm sure at some point serious students will want to advance the efficiency of learning by using Japanese references. For me, seeing new kanji in sentences, learning the pronunciation, learning how to use them grammatically, using a Japanese to Japanese dictionary to understand the meaning, finding the compounds that consist of each kanji, using the pronunciation of the compounds to add new vocabulary to my conversations, and finally utilizing the compounds in my own writing, has greatly facilitated the learning of kanji. I strongly believe that one kanji that is completely mastered (a student knows and understands most if not all uses of it) is much better than ten kanji where the meaning is the only part that is understood. It is a slow process to study each kanji and gain "mastery", but the perseverance yields a far greater reward than what Heisig offers. I would say that at most Heisig is good for following up with Kanji that you might have forgotten but still have studied before.
Posted July 13, 2010
nutty says:
Why would you ever NOT learn the readings with the meanings? I never finished it and I never will
Posted June 26, 2010
hefa says:
RtK set me back significantly in my Japanese studies. Fortunately I managed to catch up and become essentially fluent! But I wish I had never set my hands on RtK. In my view, kanji are phonetic characters more than anything else - no need to learn made up mnemonics for their meanings - just learn how to read them and you'll get the meanings from learning vocabulary.
Posted March 06, 2010
No way, it rocks!
Bay says:
1. It takes Japanese students years and years to learn to read kanji. This entire book takes months. How is that a waste of time? It's a huge timesaver!
3. You shouldn't really learn vocabulary unless you can read it in kanji anyway. There is far less repetition involved in RTK than in learning kanji the traditional way, where you have to write the same kanji over and over again until it sticks.
4. Heisig points out that either you know all kanji and are literate, or you are illiterate. You can't be "sort-of literate" where you just know some common kanji. It doesn't matter which order you learn them in because you have to know them ALL.
5. That's READING kanji. The Heisig method is for WRITING kanji. They're different things!
6. Who told you that? Once you have the problem of remembering kanji done and dusted, EVERYTHING else becomes easier - learning their pronunciations, learning vocabulary, reading, writing especially.
It's a highly efficient system and everyone I come across who doesn't like it has either misunderstood its purpose or dismissed it out of hand.
Posted February 07, 2012
aaroncp says:
Without sounding too much of a fanboy of that site, to address Geckomayhem, the site I mention does crowd-sourcing for the stories. In other words the most popular stories rise to the top and thus you don't have to put in any work yourself thinking up stories. I would have never even gotten close to making it through this method without it.
Posted December 12, 2011
aaroncp says:
sorry if you can edit it, it is kanji.koohii.com
Posted December 11, 2011
aaroncp says:
The problem is that you aren't using spaced repetition in combination with the heisig method. Using it that way(as in on the highly recommended kanji.Kochi.com) it becomes the best possible method. It becomes easily possible to do 30 or more a day and remember them as long as you keep up reviews. Also, to address the review, you say it makes you neglect other areas, but Heisig's advice is to do kanji before even kana and definitely before grammar and vocabulary.
Posted December 11, 2011
dave says:
You say it sucks, then post an affiliate link? Why?
Posted November 10, 2011
Evan says:
I learned japanese on my own and by talking to japanese people and never took lessons. For most of the time, reading was the hardest part because of all the kanji. Not only did this book help me remember the meanings of all jouyou kanji, but it also prepared me for the second book which actually teaches you the readings. I did find that the order is a bit weird (gall bladder is taught in the second chapter!) but if you work through it in two months then you get the total result of knowing ALL meanings. I didn't use all the silly stories he presented and after about 500 kanji he just stops writing stories. The primitives might be useless in real life context but within the context of the "course" they're really useful imo... I started using this book about a year after i started learning japanese so i knew the useful characters. I think that using this book on its own is a mistake, honestly.
"In the end, you know 2042 stories that you have no use for." AND the 2042 kanji which you DO have a use for :)
Posted October 30, 2011
maldun says:
I personally think Heisig's book is great, but I also can understand that there are people who don't like it or hate it, simply because you have to see Heisig's Method as it is: A Learning technique! And since everyone has it's own way of learning it may fail with some people, but work very well with others. I like it, because it's quite the way I remember things. I have to add that not all of Heisig's stories are appealing to me, so I simply wrote my own, because my of learning is slightly different (I remember abstract and short stories or phrases better, instead of very detailed ones. Perhaps because I'm a mathematician.) But going that way I learned the meaning of 400 Kanjis in approximately 1,5 weeks. But Heisig's method demonstrates one thing: That there are often far more effective ways of learning out there than are used in classrooms or studies, And I'm sure that it's not the only one, depending of your learning type.
Posted October 05, 2011
nagz says:
Have you got the 2nd book? (RTK vol 2) Yes, it is the VOCABULARY book based on the kanjis you have learnt first. + it clearly declares that it does not follow the part of japanese elemental schools. this book is for adults, so you can have "esteem" and "gall bladder" among the first chapters, due to their easy primitive/stroke compound, while japanese kids need to learn "weekday" with its 18 strokes in 1st year.
Posted September 07, 2011
Mespia says:
What's the point of memorizing a list of readings with the kanji? You're not going to know when to use them, anyway. You don't memorize lists of definitions for English words that have different meanings, do you?
Also, this book never claims to teach you Japanese, it claims to teach you how to recognize and write the kanji, which is an integral part.
You can go back to sitting down and writing out each character a thousand times until it sticks, but I'll stay with this.
Posted September 01, 2011
Arthur says:
I agree with you. Learning a few thousand characters without learning a single thing about pronunciation, grammar, or speaking is stupid.
Posted August 18, 2011
スウェーデン人の大冒険 says:
Nice job misunderstanding all that the book is about through biased hate.
If you can learn the meanings, readings, writings, and compound uses of over 2000 glyphs without forgetting and mixing up any of it, in a reasonable time through brutal rote memorization, then congratulations. I prefer to break it down into manageable chunks by doing RTK first.
Japanese people don't use mnemonics etc. to learn them, sure, but they learn all of them over a time period of 10+ years. I don't have that time. Spending a few months on RTK in order to give you roughly the same advantage a Chinese person learning Japanese has (being able to recognize, tell a rough meaning, and tell all of them apart) and deal with the readings and compounds later through immersion (i.e. AJATT) is the only way that could've worked for me. And it didn't have to take years to do it.
If you end up with 2042 stories that wasted your time, then you did it wrong. YOU sucked, not the method.
Posted June 25, 2011
darkmind35 says:
The purpose of RTK is to be able to distinguish the Kanji from each other. That's why they are in the order of similarity (ex. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? , all of them mean VERY MUCH different things but all their left side "primitives" are one and the same) and not in the "most used kanji" order. You have to be able to distinguish EACH AND EVERY 2000 kanji from each other to attain fluency! Plus, learning through primitives greatly helps you distinguish and learn all the new kanji you're going to encounter in future.
The purpose of the book is not to teach you how to read and speak because that's beside the point! Even the cover says "A complete course on how not to forget the MEANING and WRITING of Japanese characters".
I finished the book in 2 months (doing nothing but RTK in Anki), but many people might prefer shifting between vocab/grammar and RTK. But after finishing it (and still reviewing 20min/day after that) I've had no problems with singular meanings and writings of any of those 2000 kanji.
Posted May 27, 2011
Indie Learner says:
You wouldn't know as somebody who has learned Japanese in a class setting (where everything can be blended together for you by a professor), and I don't blame you for it, but independent learners usually START with grammar, sentence structure, and basic vocab (learning a few kanji along the way), and THEN go on to formally learning kanji, all the while putting their skills to use through independent reading and listening. For THESE learners, RTK is a very ideal method. After one summer with RTK, independent learners can easily move past kanji on to mastering more advanced vocabulary, having the keywords needed to make learning meanings (and after RTK II, which you didn't mention, readings) of new vocabulary words much easier.
Before I started RTK, I was reading some elementary-targeted manga and was stuck at recognizing only 200 kanji for quite a while. It was a bit sad, to be honest. I had really wished that Japanese classes were available to me, but now I am just as happy with what my independent efforts have come up with and what I can read.
Sorry you had to do RTK in a class (it doesn't work like that), but don't knock on people who learn differently than you do.
Posted March 16, 2011
JD says:
Almost done with the book frame 1700 and wow...this has help me so much. Most of the stories are fading away. Now when I learn a Japanese word its so easy just to remember readings. I dont have to remember all those shapes and forms that make up the kanji....I just have to remember the reading!
Posted March 08, 2011
Miyumera says:
It works exactly as Heisig says. I've learned 1124 kanji in less than two months,and the most important part is that I REMEMBER them! Learning that many kanji by rote memorization would have taken years, and without the exposure to japanese culture in towns out in the middle of nowhere, it would be even more difficult. Learning 2042 kanji in 3 months is made possible by this book and Heisig's method. In traditional asian schools overseas they don't even cover anywhere near 2000 kanji in the first grade of school.
Posted February 06, 2011
Neoglitch says:
If you were forced to use RTK at University... then no wonder why you hate it with such a passion!!
First, RTK was not meant to be used in a classroom setting, but for personal self-learning only, given that each person learns at a different pace. Your professor made a terrible, terrible mistake...
Second: It's true that through Heisig's method you only learn to associate "silly stories" with each character... but that is the point! As stated by Heisig himself, the idea is to first become able to recognize each one of the 2042 characters in the book, and relate each one of them to a certain keyword, which would be its "meaning" in English. And ONCE you are familiar enough with those kanji, then you learn how to actually read them (by learning them in context, checking vocabulary, pronunctiation, etc).
Following RTK gives you the same advantage of a Chinese person learning Japanese: The Chinese person is already familiar with all the kanji, and relates each one to a "meaning" in Chinese. So, that person only has to learn how to actually read the characters in Japanese, and he's good to go!
I believe having this advantage first is WAY better than trying to learn everything in one sitting... so sorry, but I disagree with you :D
Posted January 31, 2011
MrUriah says:
It all depends upon the individual learner. Heisig even states in the introduction that it was not intended to be used in a class setting and, in fact, those that tried, would likely fail:
"The reader will not have to finish more than a few lessons to realize that this book was designed for self learning. What may not be so apparent is that USING IT TO SUPPLEMENT THE STUDY OF KANJI IN THE CLASSROOM OR TO REVIEW FOR EXAMINATIONS HAS AN ADVERSE INFLUENCE ON THE LEARNING PROCESS. The more you try to combine the study of the written kanji through the method outlined in these pages with traditional study of the kanji, the less good this book will do you. I know of no exceptions."
RTK works for me, and IS working for me, because that is how I learn. I associate the foreign word/picture/kanji/what-have-you with something I already know. There by what would be read as "ichi" is "one" in my mind. The more I study the kanji using RTK, the faster that association is made, until it becomes instantaneous, like seeing a friends face or reading a language one is already fluent in.
What this means, for me, is once I can recognize and associate the kanji with knowledge of things I already have, learning to SPEAK the language, so as to read the language in itself, instead of an instant translation, will be easier. Think of those people who learn Spanish, Italian, German, Portugese, etc. There ARE no special characters to learn, for the most part, and what few there are...well...are few.
RTK, therefore, from my stand point and the way I learn, is the alphabet song. Children learn the alphabet song before they learn to read. I'm simply learning to sing my ABC's.
Maybe next time you'll sing with me?
Posted December 29, 2010
Padeowan says:
You have missed the point of this book. It aims to remember the meaning of kanji, and I can assure you that it works. The time you use inventing "silly mnemonics" is saving the time you could waste writing the same character again and again to learn it.
Posted November 21, 2010
Chris says:
"In the end, you know 2042 stupid stories that you have no use for." - Well damn, if in that case, I will actually be able to memorize 2042 "stories" then the book has in fact worked and I'm happy about that. I just started out with the book. Kanji was never my favourite part of learning - I had done a few courses at school, but actually coming back to it with this book I have so far had a great experience learning Kanji and find the method to be excellent. Instead of learning Kanji in a random order, ie for words you're currently learning, you learn them in a way that actually helps you build up more Kanji knowledge and you understand the true meanings behind each character. Starting out with "principals" like "Sun" and then realizing how many Kanji are built from that makes it all the better. Then, as you go along with your vocab, you start to recognize the Kanji - and of course, you already know the meaning. So it's just a matter of associating the Kanji with that particular word - which is actually no problem at all compared to remembering the character itself.
I don't agree with this article at all. "Heisig's order of learning kanji is stupid. You learn difficult ones too fast, and save needed ones for last." This is actually not correct. The point of the book is the opposite.
The reasons you gave are completely useless - "You waste time remembering kanji "primitives" that are completely made up." - So what if they're made up, they actually help a lot of people!
"All the repetition you do could have been better spent repeating vocabulary instead." Who said you have to spend a whole lot of time on the book? I only learn 5-10 Kanji a day, I spend maybe 30 minutes on it. I know about 300-400 Kanji and in a year that number will be more than doubled. All from 30 minutes a day. I don't see this as neglecting my vocab or anything else because I spend twice as much on that!
"Focusing on one bit (kanji meanings) will automatically lead to neglect of the rest" You already said that.
"Silly stories in your head is a waste of effort in learning Japanese."
LOL.
Posted October 18, 2010
erik says:
1. The nmemonics are the tool that allows you to memorize the characters themselves, by using maginative memory. After a while, you forget the stories, but you still have the kanji memorized.
2. Who cares? They were chosen for greatest efficiency in learning kanji as fast as possible.
3. There is little repetition involved in RTK, especially when compared to "tradition" methods of learning kanji.
4. The learning order was engineered to accelerate the learning by building up particular sets of primitives and kanji. It is designed to be completed fully before being able to use them much anyway. Other methods teach "important" often-used kanji first, and suffer in speed for it.
5. That's the best way to learn the range of meanings and pronunciations yes, but for the characters themselves, I think RTK is best.
6. That's why you combine RTK with other things.
7. See 1.
Also, RTK is designed for self-study, using it for a class is a bad idea.
Posted September 16, 2010
... AND THE REST OF THE SERIES
HELP ME PROVE MY POINT
If you agree, add links (proof!) that help me make my case
Add a link that makes my case.
Japanese Symbol Writing
0 points
DISPROVE MY POINT (fine, be that way)
Disagree? Put your money where your mouth is and show us why.
Post links that point out why you think I'm wrong.
Remembering the Kanji - Does it Work?
Remembering the Kanji is working for me - check ou more...0 points
AJATT: All Japanese All The Time
This guy mentions using RTK to teach himself Japanese, more...0 points
Forum » Discussion » General » Thanks for developing this great software » cerebware.pcriot.com
This guy explains how he learned 2043 kanji in 110 more...0 points
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aROA4KqQSM4
A demo of the software he used.0 points
FURTHER READING
right here on Squidoo!
WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING ABOUT THE RTK
by hefa
Hi! I'm Henrik. I'm from Sweden but moved to Japan five years ago to work in the mobile software industry, and I'm loving it here and plan on staying.... more »
- 20 featured lenses
- Winner of 9 trophies!
- Top lens » Best Books for Learning Japanese
Explore related pages
- Best Books for Learning Japanese Best Books for Learning Japanese
- Quiz: Mock test for JLPT level N3 Quiz: Mock test for JLPT level N3
- My efficient kanji study methods My efficient kanji study methods
- Learn Japanese - The Truth Learn Japanese - The Truth
- Learn Hiragana And Katakana - The Best Method Learn Hiragana And Katakana - The Best Method
- Learn Japanese language writing systems Learn Japanese language writing systems
Features lenses
More stuff to read and do here on Squidoo
The best alternative to RtK
What I recommend the most
A Guide to Remembering Japanese Characters (Tuttle language library)
Amazon Price: $16.04 (as of 02/17/2012)
This book is nothing less than an etymological kanji dictionary of all the 2000+ joyo (everyday use) kanji! For each kanji character, it presents its history in brief, references it to associated characters, tells its story of how it has evolved into its current form, and also its readings (both kun and on readings) and three example words/compound words written using the character. Of all the Japanese learning-related books I own, this one is by far the one I've gotten the most out of. I heartily recommend this one!
