Do You Support the Separation of School & State?

Ranked #2,134 in Culture & Society, #48,022 overall

"I proclaim publicly that I favor ending government involvement in education" in the USA

This is the statement I agreed to when I signed the Proclamation of the Alliance for the Separation of School and State: "I proclaim publicly that I favor ending government involvement in education."

I signed the Proclamation about nine years ago - but I feel this as strongly now as I did then. I believe that government education is dangerous, and that children would be better educated in private schools or through homeschooling.

I view government schooling as a form of welfare, but worse than that, public schools are almost a type of monopoly as so many parents, especially poor parents, see no viable alternative for their children's education... and education, as we all know, is compulsory in the USA.

Not every signer of the Proclamation does so for the same reasons I signed it. Therefore this lens is about my reasons for wanting government education to end and isn't meant to reflect the beliefs of all those who sign the Proclamation for the Separation of School and State. For more information on the official version of this issue, refer to the website for the Separation of School and State.

Before you read the rest of this page...

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Government schooling destroys independent thinking skills

...want to teach your child to think? Take your child out of public school!

Say goodbye to independent thinking skills when you send a child off to public school. When I sent my child to eighth grade after homeschooling for five years, a teacher commented to me that my child had amazing independent thinking skills which were not found in the other children in her classroom. Not surprising - all the other children were trained to follow the pack, do as they were told, and not to think for themselves. Is that what you want for your child?

The website for the Separation of School and State states that government schooling "fosters unquestioning obedience, acceptance of authority, herd mentality, and dependency." Also it "manufactures 'equality' by lowering standards" and "discourages individuality, innovation, curiosity, creativity and overall excellence." I agree with all of these points.

Because I wanted my children to follow their own unique interests and to think creatively, I decided to homeschool them throughout their elementary school years.

Quoting a man who helped design our current American education system:

"The children who know how to think for themselves spoil the harmony of the collective society which is coming, where everyone would be interdependent."
- John Dewey, philosopher and education reformer of late 1800s-mid 1900s

Independent thinking poll

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Government schools take over control of the children

...they have more rights than you may think!

When my child went to eighth grade I was given a parents' handbook to explain school policies. I was shocked to see that it stated that twelve-year-old children could not only get school personnel to take them to the health clinic behind their parents' backs for contraceptives, but school authorities could also take girls to get an abortion without their parents ever knowing a thing about it! Abortion is a life-threatening procedure and parents were cut out of the decision making process! (This is California law - your state may be different.)

But that is only the beginning. I also learned that whenever a CPS agent wanted to interview children at school, the school would allow that to happen without even telling the children that they had the right to refuse such interviews or request the presence of their parent(s) or attorney. Even though I had a Hatch Amendment Letter on file with the schools, when a school official called CPS with a false accusation, the school ignored my Hatch Amendment Letter and let the CPS agent interview my child anyhow. You cannot trust school employees to follow the laws, or even to know the laws.

Naturally I questioned all these things and discovered that when you enroll your child in a government school there's a bit of small print allowing the schools to act as if they were the parents for the time the child is in school. And school authorities didn't know what a Hatch Letter was and had never seen one before I gave them mine.

Quote from the father of American public education:

"We who are engaged in the sacred cause of education are entitled to look upon all parents as having given hostages to our cause."
- Horace Mann, education reformer, abolitionist

School authority over children

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Public schools, public menace

How public schools lie to parents and betray our children

Government schools use change agents to control parents and children

...hear it from a former public school change agent!

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The deliberate dumbing down of America

Are children intentionally given an ineffective education? Charlotte Iserbyt presents her evidence in this book.

the deliberate dumbing down of america - A Chronological Paper Trail: A Chronological Paper Trail

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Government school employees act as if vaccinations are mandatory

...and they are not.

When my child went to school I was informed that another vaccination was needed. Because I believed my child might have a sensitivity to the mercury in vaccinations, I requested an exemption from further vaccinations. Sure enough - the school officials had never heard of someone refusing vaccinations! They thought it was mandatory!

They showed me their vaccination form and I turned it over expecting to see the line where I could sign to make my child exempt. Unfortunately they had photocopied the form and didn't bother to photocopy the reverse side. "Not right," I told them, and I had to go home and download the correct form from the State Department of Education's website.

Vaccination awareness

...public school officials don't seem to care so long as their forms are signed.

Vaccinations contain mercury and other questionable substances including cells from aborted babies. Many children are injured permanently by vaccinations, yet public schools spread the false impression that these dangerous vaccinations are mandatory.

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Separating school and state

How to liberate America's families

Separating School & State: How to Liberate America's Families

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Government schools were created for obedience training, not for education

...based on a Germanic model to mold children into conformity.

Apparently the government wanted to train children to be good little soldiers and factory workers. They wanted children to learn to obey orders. They wanted them to do as they were told:

"Line up!"

"Raise your hand!"

"Follow directions!"

Those are the most important lessons taught in government schools.

John Taylor Gatto, in his book, The Underground History of American Education, wrote:

"Traditional American school purpose -- piety, good manners, basic intellectual tools, self-reliance, etc. -- was scrapped to make way for something different. Our historical destination of personal independence gave way slowly to Prussian-purpose schooling, not because the American way lost in any competition of ideas, but because for the new commercial and manufacturing hierarchs, such a course made better economic sense."

Quoting a government school educator:

"'Parent choice' proceeds from the belief that the purpose of education is to provide individual students with an education. In fact, educating the individual is but a means to the true end of education, which is to create a viable social order to which individuals contribute and by which they are sustained."
- Association of California School Administrators

The history of compulsory education

...a true story.

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Obedience training vs. creative thinking

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The underground history of American education

A school teacher's intimate investigation into the problem of modern schooling.

This book examines American education, teaching things you never learned in school.

Government schooling allows government brainwashing

...children, sent to school by trusting parents, are trained to believe whatever the government wants them to.

Government brainwashing starts when the children arrive at school and the bell rings. They get up, first thing, face the American flag, and put their hands over their hearts, and say The Pledge of Allegiance:

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.

Yikes. Pound that into your mind for a while and you might really believe there is "liberty and justice for all" here in the USA - until you grow up and learn there are lots of people in the USA enduring massive suffering and trauma caused by false accusations by government agents, wrongful convictions, and violations of constitutional rights.

Liberty and justice for all?

Educators should not lie to children!

Still that Pledge is forced on school children day after day like it is some kind of religion or a standard of ultimate truth. The way it is pounded into the consciousness of children is absolutely cult-like.

Unfortunately the Pledge is just the tip of the iceberg. Government schools are forcing sex education, diversity training (acceptance of gay lifestyles) and other unnecessary programming on children as young as kindergarteners these days. I wonder how you feel about that. My feeling is that young children don't need sex education of any kind, and that when they are ready for it the information should come from their parents, not from teachers with different value systems.

The website for the Separation of School and State states the frightening fact that too many parents either ignore or are not aware of: "Government run schools become tools for special interest groups who wish to target children with their message. Parents would be shocked to know that schools allow many special interest groups access to their children in a variety of ways, ranging from allowing psychologists to conduct studies on kids to allowing groups to do special programs in schools to allowing teachers to use materials from these groups in the classroom. Parents have virtually no say in these matters."

Parker family testimony regarding usurpation of parental rights by public school personnel

Their kindergartener brought home a gay storybook in a diversity information packet.

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Your feelings about the Pledge of Allegiance

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Your feelings about sex education in elementary school

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Government school teachers have a hard time controlling children these days.

This video is a real eye opener about what's going on in public school classrooms.

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Government school educated children do not benefit from forced conformity.

In fact, government school educated children can be terrible examples for each other. I noticed that my child became very depressed after enrolling in public school for eighth grade. It turned out my child was being teased unmercifully by other students, one in particular. My child asked teachers for help but they were ineffective in protecting my child from teasing and bullying.

The situation made me reflect on how beneficial government school was for children, compared to homeschooling (what we were doing before that year.) With homeschooling my children had mainly adults as examples of how to behave though I tried to make sure they also had social contact with other children. Once my child got into the local government school system, the examples of how to behave consisted mainly of other children - many of them severely troubled. Which is better for children, really?

I know people make a big deal of "socialization" thinking that's a negative issue for homeschoolers, but the kind of socialization that goes on in government schools includes bullying and teasing, as well as other worse things (trust me, I know this for a fact.) Is that the kind of socialization kids really need to endure?

People worry that homeschoolers "won't be exposed to the real world" when in fact it is government schooled children that are held back from the real world with chain link fences. Homeschooled children experience the REAL world daily, without being fenced in. They are exposed to other people of all ages rather than being grouped only with children of their own chronological age. Which environment is more REAL, and which is healthier for kids? Which environment encourages good education? Which one allows for better one-on-one interaction with protective adults?

Children who committed suicide because of bullying:

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A father's sad story of his daughter's torment at the hands of school bullies.

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Government schools are intentionally dumbing down American children.

Statistics show that education in the United States is sub-standard compared with education in other countries. Refer to the comparative statistics if you need confirmation of that: Education Statistics by country. The fact is, the American public education system doesn't work because it is designed to teach obedience rather that to stimulate intellect.

The "No Child Left Behind" federal legislation is unpopular with teachers, students, and parents. Strangely every state seems to follow this (for the purpose of getting federal funding, no doubt) even though this legislation is a direct violation of the Tenth Amendment of the United States Constitution.

How the No Child Left Behind Act damages our children and schools

Quote from a public education commissioner:

Our schools have been scientifically designed to prevent over-education from happening. The average American [should be] content with their humble role in life...
- William T. Harris, U.S. Commissioner of Education in the late 1800s

Dumbing us down

by John Taylor Gatto

Dumbing Us Down: The Hidden Curriculum of Compulsory Schooling

Amazon Price: $7.54 (as of 02/12/2012)Buy Now

Government education - is this worth what taxpayers spend on it?

For all these problems, we the American taxpayers pay hundreds of billions of dollars annually. Do you think it is worth what we're spending?

Schools have become heavy-handed about absences because they're desperate for ADA funding. (ADA = Average Daily Attendance.) If they can get kids to attend school regularly they receive about $4000 to $10,000 per pupil per year. The more children they can rope into these schools, the more secure their jobs are.

Government schools - what alternatives are there?

I could go on for hours writing about things I don't like about the USA public education system. Instead I'll refer you to the website for the Separation of School and State where these issues are probed in depth.

The important thing to mention here is that there are viable alternatives. Children can be homeschooled. Parents can learn to take responsibility for their children's education instead of sending them to the government for brainwashing and programming under the guise of free education. People can contribute to charities set up to help educate the children of the poor. Private schools can flourish in a free market economy, competing with one another to provide an exceptionally effective education.

There are lots of options. All we need now is a massive societal change.

How many people believe this way?

At this time there are more than 30,000 signers to the Proclamation for the Separation of School and State. You're welcome to be next: Alliance for the Separation of School and State.

How do you feel about public education?

Should education be controlled by the government?

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Yes - public education is essential.

BSieracki says:

yes to the state level and no on the federal level

MiddleSister says:

I teach in a public elementary school. We are actually doing a darn good job of teaching kids how to read, write, do math, understand science, and understand history. There are problems in some schools and school systems. However, the solution is not to demonize all public schools. The solution is not to defund public schools. The solutions lie in each community. Teachers and schools should continue being accountable for achievement, and students and parents should ALSO be held accountable. This is a nation in which we educate EVERY child, regardless of ability to pay, and regardless of mental or physical disability. That's pretty admirable. If we do away with public education, how will children of meager means afford to get an education?

MelissaInTheSky says:

I agree with you completely about the problems and failures of public education, but I disagree about the solution. I know of WAY TOO MANY stories of adults raised by screwed up, mean, ignorant, selfish, awful parents. Awful parents who put their children at such terrible disadvantage. And I think leaving the education of children solely in the hands of parents is a horrible idea. Especially in our society today where we are all so disconnected and hardly anyone knows their neighbors well enough to step in when parents are neglecting or abusing their children. We as a society must have SOME public function concerned with the well-being of children. And until someone comes up with a better solution, I think public education is it. We need to work to make public education (and ALL public institutions) more accountable for their actions. That would be a step in the right direction.

paperfacets says:

I definitely feel that there is no recourse to public education. It is worth the money because I want my neighbors and follow citizens educated no matter who they are. If the citizens are left tangling we would have a nation looking more like Mexico or other 3rd world nations.

No, government should end its involvement in the education of children.

mrducksmrnot says:

Governments roll in education is all about control of the masses of We The People. When the Department of Education under Federal and State rules threw out the Bible, Prayer, and mandated what could and could not be taught it was one of the first steps in the downfall of a free Nation. All Civil Rights were thrown out the door.

Heather426 says:

The government should not be involved in how I educate my children. The experiment in public education has failed,so based on results, it isn't essential.

JustOneGuy says:

100% against it.

JustOneGuy says:

Absolutely NOT. We have three natural rights. To seek the truth in all things, to choose, and to create our own identity (and that includes our property). The ONLY purpose of government, if we choose to have government, is to protect those three rights by protecting our freedom. Being able to perform those Natural Rights is Freedom.

Richard Sievert says:

It's evil i say close them down!

 
view all 15 comments

Articles about the Separation of School and State

Many people have written about the movement for the separation of school and state.

Dr. Patrick Johnston -- The Separation of School and State
Article at News With Views.
What About the Poor?
The most frequently asked question.
What is the real cost of sending my child to public school?
PDF pamphlet to print out and share with others.
How to Separate School and State -- A Primer
Entrepreneurial, educational and political efforts explained, including a discussion of how to help children of the poor receive a good education.
Playing at Markets Vouchers as a Socialist Trap
Vouchers are wrong for the same reason that government education is wrong.
A Parents Pledge
What parents can pledge to do for their children.
Education - Lets Do Something Different
To fix the problems of education we must do something different than we've done before.
They Pry Them from Our Cold Dead Fingers
Comparing children to guns.... what does the state have the right to take away?
A Practical Plan: Help parents remove their children from "public schools"
How might the US end school-by-government and return to honest education?
Alan Schaeffer: Alliance for the Separation of School and State - Homeland Stupidity
Separate school and state? But how will children get an education unless the government gives it to them?

If government education ended tomorrow, what would happen?

My prediction

Reader predictions:

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Carl, at 6am on September 9, 2010 predicts:

The country is failing in all areas, expect things to become much worse before they improve. Society has degenerated due to liberal (socialist) policies and deceptive right wing propaganda. Our society is immoral and apathetic and because of this most Americans wouldn't know where to start in relation to educating their own children. This is actually a good thing because it would force parents to take responsibility for their children instead of leaving it up to a group of strangers.

Dave, at 7pm on April 12, 2010 predicts:

Parents everywhere would personally teach their children like it was done in the old days or they would create their own schools with others in the community. It's not rocket science.

paperfacets, at 3pm on June 10, 2009 predicts:

If education was ended we would have a rise in crime and everyone would start saying "why doesn't the government do something."

LindaJM, at 1am on May 2, 2009 predicts:

Many parents would be shocked and angry, but they would realize that they as parents need to take responsibility for their children's education, and then do something about it.

 
 
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Your comments are welcome...

I'm always happy to get comments, so please let me know what you think.

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  • Reply
    jEsChrDs82 Jan 28, 2012 @ 12:27 pm | delete
    Public school is important especially for families who cannot afford to send their children to private nor have time to monitor homeschool program for their children, I don't think it should be eliminated but government control should be lessen.

    constitution for kids
  • Reply
    cr00059n Dec 31, 2011 @ 11:54 am | delete
    Such an important topic that needs to be addressed more often. The border lines of school and state need to be drawn carefully.
  • Reply
    MiddleSister Dec 11, 2011 @ 2:33 pm | delete
    Public school is essential. I work hard every day to teach each student to think creatively and critically.
  • Reply
    mrducksmrnot Sep 30, 2011 @ 6:49 am | delete
    All of the lenses here on Squidoo will better educate the mass of the people with much more true information than any public school could ever dream about.
  • Reply
    JustOneGuy May 1, 2011 @ 4:00 am | delete
    We look at schooling as though it were part of our identity to have to pump information into our children's heads. We need to know what is true. Without that we cannot make good choices. This allows us to create our identity and the things we need in order to survive. To stop someone from seeking the truth, from making their own choices and to damage one's identity or one's property is to violate their natural rights and to destroy their freedom. Public schools are built upon travesty after travesty and no good ever has or will ever come from it. The things that we've allowed to take place in order to 'educate our children in public schools' are fundamentally predatory in nature and therefore evil. The whole point of government is to protect the citizens from human predation and if you look at the results of and what has been done in the name of public schooling, you'll see the unvarnished truth of evil in the name of good.
  • Reply
    paperfacets Jun 10, 2009 @ 4:01 pm | delete
    I don't a agree on this, but there is dumbing down and some misinformation or miseducation getting out there in public schools. I just read "Lies My Teacher Told Me" by James W. Loewen. That's why I was drawn to this title on your list of lenses. After reading that book I would sigh a petition to eliminate Columbus day.

    This is an engaging lens! Kept my interest.

    Thanks for visiting my Route 66 lens. Pasadena has so much history and always so much happening.
  • Reply
    clembob May 13, 2009 @ 4:44 pm | delete
    I do think there is too much government involvement. When I say this lens has been favorited I really mean it. Very thought provoking stuff here!
  • Reply
    tandemonimom May 8, 2009 @ 7:05 pm | delete
    Welcome to The Homeschooling Group - you're a featured lens!
  • Reply
    Soren May 8, 2009 @ 6:42 pm | delete
    I love this lens! If I could give you 10 stars I would. I am somewhat of a conservative anarchist. I hate the government attempting to control my thoughts, actions and beliefs. I believe that the government should have absolutley no part or interference in our personal lives, decisions or beliefs at any time.
  • Reply
    Burkean09 May 8, 2009 @ 12:50 am | delete
    I don't think public education needs to be eliminated, but this mostly governmental monopoly on education needs to come to an end. Through policies such as school vouchers and by creating a more friendly environment for homeschooling, we can spark competition between public and private institutions. Each will have to show that it can offer a better education and experience for the child in order to earn the ability to educate said child. Competition can spark improvements across the board.
  • Reply
    Webcodes May 6, 2009 @ 12:49 am | delete
    You know I really really wish that vouchers for private schools would have become law here in California where I live.. ..when it comes time to vote.. opponents are always shooting it down saying it would take money from public schools. Great topic and great lens. 5*.
  • Reply
    tandemonimom May 1, 2009 @ 12:12 pm | delete
    This is an excellent - if somewhat frightening! - page. 5* and lensrolled to Homeschool Quotes.
  • Reply
    stargazer00 May 1, 2009 @ 11:39 am | delete
    As a retired homeschool mom I understand the importance of this issue. Public school is not getting the job done. Homeschooled kids can succeed in the real world. One of mine has just completed a navy program equivalent to an education at MIT. One is in college and in management in his job. One works at a grocery store. Most importantly, they all know how to think for themselves and can recognize BS when they hear it. Great topic!
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Separation of School and State 

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