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Stanford Prison and the Milgram Studies: What Are the Moral Limits?

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Milgram and Zimbardo Learn More About Their Experiments Than Their Subjects

I was a sociology major in college. We saw the movie about the Milgram experiments in almost every class. Sociology professors loved it. The experiment advertised for subjects by saying that it was designed to learn how people learn. That was not true. It was actually meant to study how far someone will go "when following orders". It took place in 1961, a time when the world was still very aware of what happens when people, 'just follow orders'.

Ten years later, in 1971 Phillip Zimbardo, of Stanford University wanted to know what would happen if you took 70 male college students, made some of them prisoners and others prison guards. He was honest with his subjects, but not much more ethically aware. He was testing the assumptions that inherent personality traits were the key to prison abuse.

This lens uses two unethical experiments to explore the issue of what happens to people who have no or little power when they are given a lot of power over people who are more powerless. I suggest that they suffer.

Milgram in a Nutshell

The experimenter (E) orders the teacher (T), the subject of the experiment, to give what the latter believes are painful electric shocks to a learner (L), who is actually an actor and confederate. The subject believes that for each wrong answer, the learner was receiving actual electric shocks, though in reality there were no such punishments. Being separated from the subject, the confederate set up a tape recorder integrated with the electro-shock generator, which played pre-recorded sounds for each shock level.[1]

Sounds simple right? All they wanted to do was to find out what persons will 'follow orders' even if their conscious protests. They learned that people who had more important jobs were more likely to torture, but they learned little to nothing as to why or other complex questions

What they didn't count on was the mental torture that happened to the real subjects. The men who were ordered to give shocks of increasing intensity suffered an agony that lasted far beyond any physical pain that they would have inflicted had the experiment been as described.

The Milgram Experiments

These films are disturbing. Watch at your own discretion. I would not put them here if I didn't think that they were also important.

Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Study

The Stanford Prison Study

1971, ten years after Milgram Philip Zimbardo of Stanfors selected 24 young volunteers out of 70 to enter the pseudo prison he created. The 24 were chosen for their lack of psychological conditions, physical problems, criminal history or anything that might interfere with the experiment. Some became guards and others prisoners. The roles were decided by a 'toss of a coin'.

Zimbardo had been friends with Stanley Milgram of Yale the creator of the ethically challenged Milgram experiments. Again they wanted to study the inherent issues within the human that created prison abuse. They did not study the inherent issues of the institution.

The guards had an orientation meeting where they were told they could not physically harm anyone, however two days after the start several showed strong sadistic tendencies.
After four days the prisoners were talking about escape and guards became increasingly cruel.

Zimbardo stopped the experiment after 6 days, stating that even he had gotten more involved in his role than he ever expected he would.

The Stanford Prison Study

Is Heirarchy the Source of Evil?

Important!

The Message:

The point of the Milgram and Stanford Prison Experiments is that in the right conditions most people can do things that they would other wise consider immoral and that will cause them pain after the fact. The institutions must change, in order to protect the employees as much as the inmates.

This is not in any way to be considered an excuse for those who do horrible things. People are responsible for their behavior.

Stanford Prison Study: A Tourist Attraction?

My Experience With Death Row Guards

The Toll On Death Row Guards

The guards are dragging Puff Daddy to his death by lethal injection. Heath Ledger, a young guard who was friends with Puff, is part of the crew, but before they get to the death chamber, Heath vomits violently and has to leave. His father, another guard, is disgusted.

However, this may have been overly dramatic, but it does illustrate a real issue. The article above discusses the psychological cost of executions to guards on Texas' Death Row. This isn't a movie, it is real.

I spent several years doing a ministry in the North Carolina prison where the executions happened. Every week, I visited an inmate, Ed Lemons. I was there to minister to him, but he taught me enough that sometimes I wondered who was helping who. Ed was a special person. It was not unusual for a guard to say, as I went through the lengthy sign in process, for a guard to say, "Oh, you are going to see Ed! Tell him 'hey' for me!" Ed, a hemophiliac, actually died of AIDS from a bad blood transfusion he got in the 80's at age 11. None of the guards who liked and admired him had to participate in his killing. But what if they had? What would that have cost them?

One Easter I left my visit early, so I was alone with the guard as I checked out and waited for the elevator. I said something empathetic about his having to work on a holiday so that the prisoners could see their families on the holiday. He replied, "They are a lot like us, they just got caught". I was taken aback at his candor, but didn't really believe him. Central Prison is not a drunk tank where men dry out nor is it for shoplifters. It houses all of death row. The 'general population' contained some really nasty, violent criminals. I did not nor do I believe that any of the guards, let alone enough to be called, 'we', were violent criminals or murders. I do believe that working there, they tend to start to identify with some of the prisoners. And what happens to the guards when they kill these prisoners?

The picture here is from Korea. I don't know what the guards were thinking or what it cost them, but I wonder...

Is It The Person or the Institution?

This dual is not to suggest that people who do bad things are not responsible for their behavior. Most prisoners are guilty and are responsible for being there. Guards who are abusive are responsible.

However, this dual is about the damage done to the souls and psyches of of the powerless who are up in the positions of power over those who are more powerless.

The Institution That Gives Powerless People Power Over Others Hurts Both

No, Its All Individual Responsiblity

JoanneOtt says:

I lean more towards individual responsibility, but it's not just a black or white issue.

7Suze7 says:

I don't know but its all pretty creepy, like some Hollywood moive

williammason says:

Wait a second, is the movie prison The Experiment released on September of this year related to the Milgram and Zimbardo experiments? If yes, never give power to an individual!

Both Are Victims

LisaAuch says:

Oh this debate is very real to me, I worked in a detention centre for children, and studied both sides, I have seen children fight, I have seen officers abuse their position of power, to gain control over the children, and I have seen children, who were not to blame for their circumstances change to conform to what their "setting" depicted - A bad boys school

reasonablerobinson says:

Control the situation and control the person. Most of us believe we have more influence over our actions and decisions than we like to think. I begin an undergraduate lecture on psychology communications and behaviour by asking 150 students to stand up, turn around three times and then sit down again. i then explain to them that this semesters course is about helping gain insights as to why they did just that! In the experiments both actors are manipulated to demonstrate a point.

nightcats says:

Definitely, both our victims. While most of us like to imagine we "think for ourselves" the truth is that we are hugely influenced by the moral and philosophical beliefs of our peers and leaders. Change can come from either the institution or the individual.

monarch13 says:

"Absolute Power, Corrupts Absolutely". This is why checks and balances must be in place for all people in positions of authority and control.

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Margo's Salon and Related Lenses

I Thank You for Reading This Tough Lens. I Would Appreciate One More Step, I'd Like to Hear From You.

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SereneSea Apr 5, 2011 @ 3:49 am | delete

There is much to do in reforming this institutions. Power generally corrupts people and they misuse it, very few understand the strength of power and where to use it. Bottom line is to be wary and use power only when in absolute necessity -a great thought provoking lens.

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JoanneOtt Apr 5, 2011 @ 1:03 am | delete

Certainly a very deep and thought provoking lens.

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James Mar 21, 2011 @ 6:57 am | delete

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7Suze7 Feb 10, 2011 @ 5:45 am | delete

I can't believe they did this, horrible

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LisaAuch Feb 5, 2011 @ 4:23 am | delete

Oh my goodeness this rose the heckles! I watched in horroe as some children would arrive, needing "care and shelter" never once having a record against them, to leaving the school (a term i will use very lightly) with a list of convictions as long as my arm.
I also saw staff come to work, as lovely caring individuals and was horrified to later hear how they would talk about the children.....I can feel myself getting angry, which tells me margo you have written a truly thought provoking and interesting article. Thankyou
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