Science and God: The Faithful Sceptic

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Can Science and Spirituality ever be reconciled?

Scientific understanding and the religious beleif in God are generally seen as being wholly distinct at best, and at worst mutually exclusive. Indeed the scientific revolution in which our modern concept of science was born came about in large part due to an intellectual rebellion against the dogmatic Christian view of the world. I would like to use this lense to ask if they realy are natural enemies, or whether they could ever be friends.

An Interesting Quote 

Here is a quote that I rather like, that is sort of the inspiration for this lense

"When Count Joseph de aistre, that grand and passionate lover of Logic, said despairingly 'The world is without religion', he resembled those people who say rashly: 'There is no God.'
The world, in truth, is without the religion of Count Joseph de Maistre, as it is probable that such a God as the majority of Atheist conceive does not exist." - The Key of The Mysteries, Eliphas Levi

So What I would like to know is this: is it possible that the idea that the concept of God is unscientific, and that the existence of God can therefore never play a part in our scientific understanding of the world, is based on a misconception on the part of science as to what the term 'God' actually means; or can Science and God never be reconciled?

Books By Eliphas Levi 

Eliphas Levi wrote and co-wrote quite a number of books, but these are what I would reccomend as his best work

Poll 

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Debate 

Have your say, and move the debate forwards. This lense was created to look for answers, not to give them, and we need you to be part of that process. If you voted in the pole then tell us why; even a few brief words will help.

Could philosophy or science ever 'discover' the existence of God, or prove His existence?

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Yes, God could be part of our scientific understanding of the universe

SterlingHousePublisher says:

Nice lens you have here. You may be interested in "The Uncertain Believer: Reconciling God and Science" It addresses the skepticism and indecision that plagues those who no longer find it easy to accept the belief in the existence of a supernatural creator. http://www.squidoo.com/edwardcorreia

RedSportNiac says:

Science will prove that God do exist anyhow thru the history of mankind we have seen that human as they gain more knowledge they feel that they can do anything. They thought their new finding will closure to the truth they want to believe but unfortunately they will be wrong. I believe science is not used to find whether God exist or not but how to avoid from god. Sad but true.

Margaret_Schaut says:

The scientists I know have said that when they discover the very substance of the universe in its most pure form, it will be so beautiful that they will know it is God. I suspect, like Pere Teilhard de Chardin, that LOVE is the substance of the universe, and of course, God IS love. When they make that discovery, it will be entirely outside of what their minds had previously thought, totally unexpectd, and will change the trajectory of science forever.

flowski says:

I've reconciled the what's god issue for myself, by envisioning god as everything instead of something or someone.

spirituality says:

If God can't be discovered, isn't He a name for that which we do NOT understand?

No, God is utterly unknowable to science

izzy lomas says:

i think that god is a supreme being. god is and always will be undetected by science.

Robbert_Veen says:

Philosophy can, and has to my satisfaction. I think the old arguments by Thomas and Descartes, Anselm and hegel, to mention just a few, though not 'proofs' in the strict sense of the word, are still quite valuable to make Gods existence rationally acceptable.

rms says:

I agree with rwoman. Some things just can't be explained. Thank you for adding this great lens to the Our Favorite Squidoo Lenses group!

rwoman says:

I think there are things that science can't explain.

WhiteOak50 says:

I believe that perhaps philosopy and/or science can discover an essence of the existence of God. Since "God" is the Divine Source, I do not believe that anything or anyone can 'discover' the full existence.

 
 
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Is Scientific Materialism an Oxymoron? 

Science and Materialism generally go hand in hand, and may sem to many people as if they are natural bed fellows. The attitude of science is often described by the analogy of the 'clockwork universe' - the idea that the universe can be explained entirely in terms of the interactions between physical bodies. And it is fundamental to the philosophy of science that we only accept the existence of things for which we have direct evidence. Therefore science is materialistic inthat it does not accept the existence of anything beyond the material world, such as, for example, the spiritual realms with which religion is concerned.

Given the clear relationship betwen science and materialism the assertion which I am going to make here may initially seem foolish, but stay with me and give me a chance to explain. I think that a strong case can be made that the concept of materialism is fundamentally unscientific, and that 'scientific materialism' is therefore a contradiction in terms.

This assertion is based on the same foundations as science itself- the philosophy of radical doubt, first put forward by Rene Descartes and later expanded upo by Schopenhauer. This extreme scepticism states that we should doubt everything that can be doubted, and only accept as true those things for which we have direct evidence. It was this philosophy whichn removed all assumptions, religious beleifs and dogmas and so on from the field of enquiry, thus establishing science as we know it. It is this radical doubt which establishes the certainty of scientific knowledge and distinguishes it from the speculations of philosophy and the mysteries of religion and spirituality

But it is also this radical doubt which should exclude materialism from the language of science. In the words of the German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer:
"We do not know a sun, only an eye which sees a sun;
and we do not know an earth, only a hand which feels the earth"
in other words all of human experience consists of mental perception. The idea that there exists a material universe, independent of our perception, is purely speculation - dogma of science, if you like.
Not only is there no evidence for such a thing, but ther never could be any evidence for it. It is my assertion therefore that the whole concept of materialism is utterly antithetical to science, and that, as the title of this article suggests, scientific materialism is an oxymoron. What do you think?

Well, what do you think? 

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The Equinox 

Full reprints of Aleister Crowleys famous self-published works

'The Method of Science, The Aim of Religion'

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Strange Science 

The previous sections have been, I guess you could say, written as if they are looking in on science from the perspective of spirituality. For this next section I would like to reverse that, beginning with science and looking towards the dawn of the spirit on the horizon.

Quantum physics is a very strange science indeed - hence the title - and in many ways the worldview it suggests is closer to that of the mystic than the mechanic. The days of the 'clockwork universe', where science conceived of the universe as a giant machine are over, and the truth is much more interesting.

Here are a couple of quotes chosen to highlight how science is approaching the ground previously occupied by spirituality:

"In atomic physics the obsered phenomena can be understood only as correlations between various processes of observation and measurement, and the end of this chain of processes lies always in the consciousness of the human observer. The crucial feature of quantum theory is that the observer is not only necessary t observe the properties of an atomic phenomenon, but is necessary even to bring about these properties...
The fact that all the properties of particles are determined by priniciples closely related to the methods of observation would mean that the basic structures of the material world are determined, ultimately, by the way we look at this world; that the observed patterns of matter are reflections of patterns of mind" (The Turning Point, F. Capra)

"That this is so is one of the fundamental tenets of Eastern philosophy. The Eastern mystics tell us again and again that all things which we perceive are creations of the mind, arising from a particular state of consciousness and dissolving again if this state is transcended (as also gnostic christians taught - Ed. note)." - (The Tao of Physics - F.Capra). Hinduism holds that all shapes and structures around us are created by a mind under the spell of maya, and it regards our tendency to attatch deep significance to them as the basic human illusion. Buddhists call this illusion Avidya, or ignorance, and see it as the state of a 'defiled' mind.

Fritjof Capra Amazon 

Fritjof Capra is a quantum physicist who has written a number of popular science books about the parallels between modern science and ancient spiritual philosophies, as well as on the profound philosophical implications of modern phyical science theories. Here are his best works, which I highly recomend for you to read.

Spiritualization Poll 

The Spiritualization of Science

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Proof of the Existence of God 

A deeper look into the strange science of quantum physics

You would have to be a fool to try to summarize quantum physics in a couple of paragraphs, so it's a good job I am one.
We are all familiar with the classical view of the universe as being built up from tiny little building blocks of matter called atoms. But at the sub-atomic level this concept of fundamental units of matter begins to break down. It turns out that sub-atomic 'particles' are also capable of manifesting themselves as waves. The consensus interpretation among physicists say that these are waves of probability. This means that these entities do not actualy exist in any particular place or time, but only have varying tendencies to be in many different places spread out over the area that the wave occupies. This is called the wave-particle duality; don't try to understand it (it's just to weird for that), just accept that it is true.
And here is where it gets really strange: The only thing which makes a particle acquire a finite location, or momentum, is when it is observed. When you are not looking it becomes smeared out in a wave of probability, and if you look for this wave then you can measure it and record it, but if you look for a particle then the wave disapears and it becomes a particle instead. That is what was being refered to in the section above when Capra says "properties of particles are determined by priniciples closely related to the methods of observation" - it is called the 'collapse of the wave-function'.
Generally the philosophical implications of this are ignored by physicists, because if they are honest it doesn't make any more sense to them that it does to you or me. But this does raise an interesting question: As professor Stephen Hawking himself has written, this 'collapse to the wave-function' seems to suggest that there must be a conscious observer outside of the universe to collapse the whole wave-funtion and bring the universe into existence. Without this the universe could never have devoloped any finited, quantifiable characteristics. Hawking raises this issue as part of an argument for revising the conventional interpretation, but I would like to suggest something else entirely: Perhaps the conventional interpretation is correct, and perhaps quantum physics has already proven the necessity of the existence of god.

Proof Poll 

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Top 10 Popular Science Books 

Help us to find the top ten best popular science books by voting for your favourites or suggesting something we've missed.

Quantum Enigma: Physics Encounters Consciousness by Bruce Rosenblum, Fred Kuttner

Quantum Enigma: Physics Encounters Consciousness by Bruce Rosenblum, Fred Kuttner

In trying to understand the atom, physicists built more...1 point

My Stroke of Insight: A Brain Scientist's Personal Journey by Jill Bolte Taylor

My Stroke of Insight: A Brain Scientist's Personal Journey by Jill Bolte Taylor

A brain scientist's journey from a debilitating st more...1 point

Freakonomics [Revised and Expanded]: A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden Side of Everything by Steven D. Levitt, Stephen J. Dubner

Freakonomics [Revised and Expanded]: A Rogue Economist Explores the Hidden Side of Everything by Steven D. Levitt, Stephen J. Dubner

Which is more dangerous, a gun or a swimming pool more...1 point

Physics of the Impossible: A Scientific Exploration into the World of Phasers, Force Fields, Teleportation, and Time Travel by Michio Kaku

Physics of the Impossible: A Scientific Exploration into the World of Phasers, Force Fields, Teleportation, and Time Travel by Michio Kaku

A fascinating exploration of the science of the im more...1 point

A Brief History of Time by Stephen Hawking

A Brief History of Time by Stephen Hawking

A Brief History of Time, published in 1988, was a more...1 point

The Carbon Age: How Life's Core Element Has Become Civilization's Greatest Threat by Eric Roston

The Carbon Age: How Life's Core Element Has Become Civilization's Greatest Threat by Eric Roston

The story of carbon-the building block of life tha more...0 points

The Origin Of Species by Charles Darwin

The Origin Of Species by Charles Darwin

The book that shook the world First time from Sign more...0 points

The Drunkard's Walk: How Randomness Rules Our Lives by Leonard Mlodinow

The Drunkard's Walk: How Randomness Rules Our Lives by Leonard Mlodinow

In this irreverent and illuminating book, acclaime more...0 points

The Selfish Gene: 30th Anniversary Edition--with a new Introduction by the Author by Richard Dawkins

The Selfish Gene: 30th Anniversary Edition--with a new Introduction by the Author by Richard Dawkins

Richard Dawkins' brilliant reformulation of the th more...0 points

The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief by Francis S. Collins

The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief by Francis S. Collins

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Anything to Add? 

ebookresale wrote...

Hi,
Nice to hear: Science and Religion

ReplyPosted September 23, 2008

 
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