Why Romans 10:9-10 Is Not the Plan of Salvation

Ranked #5,510 in Culture & Society, #113,641 overall

You May Not Know It, But Romans 10:9-10 Is NOT the Plan of Salvation

This topic is a very controversial one, and I know that most of you reading this are doing so because you are almost sure that the title of this note depicts heresy. I understand your curiosity, and even welcome it. If Romans 10:9-10 is the foundation of what you have been taught about salvation through Jesus Christ, you may be eager to hear what I propose to the contrary. However, to the surprise of most of you, it is a fact that Trinitarian doctrine is not the only Christian doctrine that exists.

In fact, Trinitarian doctrine is not the original doctrine of the Christian church!

While I could spend this time giving a history lesson about the Roman Catholic Church and how the doctrine of the Trinity (and therefore the Trinitarian salvation and baptismal formulas) did not exist as actual teaching before almost 400 A.D., the simplest way to discover the error in this dominant doctrine is to go to the scriptures themselves, which testify of a more excellent way.

In other words, we're going to prove that Romans 10:9-10 is not the plan of salvation with the Bible itself.

Methodology

As a minister, I have had this conversation many times, and before I was saved, a few people attempted to have this conversation with me (most unsuccessfully). So, I know how it feels to sit on both sides of the table. Therefore, by the confirmation of God and the help of my own experiences, I submit to you that the simplest way to address the issue of whether Romans 10:9-10 is or is not the Plan of Salvation is to examine first what it does not say, and then examine what it does say. It is actually easier to pick it apart before one puts it together. So, based on Biblical criteria for salvation, we will learn what is missing from Romans 10:9-10, and then we will be more apt to see what Romans 10:9-10 is really saying and to whom.

The Bible is a book that many people believe is "subject to interpretation", but the fact of the matter is that the Bible interprets itself. That is the only way one could ever know if a Biblical teaching was truly in the vein of what the Bible actually means (as opposed to someone taking one or two verses out of context).

There are two scriptural standards by which the Bible interprets itself:

1) By two or three witnesses let every word be established - (Matt. 18:16, 2Cor. 13:1 - See also Deut. 17:6, 19:15, 1Tim. 5:19, and Heb. 10:28) - This is a Biblical principle used in both the Old and New Testaments to discern between falsehood and truth. In matters of Biblical translation, the Bible is it's own witness, testifying at least two or three times (often much more) of standards and principles that can truly be called "Biblical". The Bible supports itself in sound doctrine, and therefore interprets itself.

2) Precept must be upon precept, line upon line (Isa. 28:10) - This is how you are able to prove or disprove even the craftiest of teachings; those that are strung together with two or three scriptures which, when together and out of context, appear to be sound doctrine. If you have two or three witnesses saying one thing and someone else has two or three witnesses that seem to say another, then you begin to build upon the precepts of the Bible, or in other words, you see how the teachings "stack up" in reference to the rest of the Bible.

For example, one could pull a few scriptures together and claim that all saints should be materially wealthy. However, if you stack that teaching up against established Bible truths and principles, that argument will not hold its weight, proving that the foundational scriptures were taken out of context. Common sense would actually tell you that such a teaching cannot practically be true, but a well-rounded understanding of the whole Bible proves it scripturally.

What Romans 10:9-10 Doesn't Say

There are certain criteria for salvation that are, without controversy, absolute. They are scriptural, cannot be argued, and for the most part, are accepted by almost every Christian denomination. The ironic thing, however, is that Romans 10:9-10 does not fit these widely accepted criteria! Let's start by reading Romans 10:8-10:

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Sounds pretty straight forward, and it sounds like it would be the plan of salvation. But it's not.

***


First, we know that in order to be saved, one must repent. To repent is not only feel convicted and sorrowful for sinning against God, but to turn away from that sin to God for forgiveness and deliverance.

Matt. 3:2 - And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matt. 9:13 - But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Mark 1:4 - John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Mark 1:15 - And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Luke 13:3 - I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luke 15:7 - I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Luke 24:47 - And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.


Romans 10:9-10 makes no mention at all of repentance. If it were a plan of salvation for sinners, repentance would have to be a part of it, and it is not.

***


Secondly, Jesus said that in order to be saved (under the New Covenant or New Testament), one has to be baptized:

John 3:5 - Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Mark 16:16 - He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


Romans 10:9-10 doesn't even mention baptism! A sinner cannot be saved without baptism. So, the plan of salvation for sinners MUST include baptism. Romans 10:9-10 does not.

NOTE: This is the requirement for salvation to take effect after the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The thief on the cross next to Jesus was a Jew and was under the old covenant, so he did not need to be baptized.

***


Third, we know that God's children must be filled with his Spirit (also known as the Holy Spirit and the Holy Ghost):

John 3:5 - Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 14:26 - But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Romans 8:9, 14-17 - 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


The presence of the Holy Spirit is what transforms us and bridges the gap between sinful man and the standards of holiness. We are not able to keep God's laws except by the power of the Holy Spirit. So, any plan of salvation absolutely must include the Holy Spirit. Romans 10:9-10 does not.

The process of repenting, being baptized, and being filled with the Holy Ghost is what Jesus calls being "born again":

John 3:3-8 - 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

God's true Plan of Salvation meets all three of these criteria. We will delve into exactly what the true Biblical Plan of Salvation is momentarily. However, as promised, I will now explain what Romans 10:9-10 really does say, and to whom it is referring.

What Romans 10:9-10 Does Say

Let's read the passage one more time:

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Again, taken out of context, it sounds like this would be the Plan of Salvation. However, if you read it within the context of the Book of Romans, it becomes obvious that this passage is not even addressed to sinners, much less being a plan of salvation for the unsaved.

Let's read Romans 10:1-8:

1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

First and foremost, the passage is specifically about Jews who would not accept the doctrine of Christ. They were so convinced that righteousness could only come by the law that they could not understand righteousness by faith. Paul even referenced Deuteronomy 30 for the sake of those Jewish converts at Rome who would understand the comparison. Deuteronomy 30:10-19 says:

10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.

11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:


In the Old Testament reference, God was talking to his saints about how they could achieve and maintain right standing (or righteousness) with him. At that time, the Law of Moses (The 10 Commandments plus the Mosaic Law) was in effect, and by keeping the Law, Israel would continue to enjoy God's good graces and his blessings. The allusion was for the sake of those who knew the scriptures, that they might understand that although God's standards of righteousness had been perfected, their augmentation was not a mystery to the people of God. The Israelites represented the Kingdom of God in the earth in the Old Testament, and now all who are saved by grace, whether Jew or Gentile, represent the Kingdom of God here in the earth. Both times, the passage is directed at people who are ALREADY IN THE KINGDOM, not people who are looking to become a part of the household of God. So, now, although the requirements are different, those who were truly the people of God understand within themselves what God requires without trying to act like someone has to ascend into heaven or descend into the deep to go and retrieve the will of God.

Need more proof? In Romans 1:1-7, Paul opens the letter to the Church at Rome by identifying himself, and then identifying his audience, which was "the called of Jesus Christ", those who were the "beloved of God, called to be saints." Romans 6:3-5 acknowledges that the subjects of the letter, those to whom the letter was addressed, had ALREADY BEEN BAPTIZED, and reiterates their status in Romans 6:17-18:

Romans 6:17-18 - 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

The readers of this epistle had already been baptized and had their sins remitted! So, why would he tell them how to be saved in chapter 10?

Therefore, when we come to Romans 10:9 -10, it is not the Plan of Salvation for sinners, but the requirements for righteousness to those who are ALREADY SAVED! Those who are truly saved are those who believe in the resurrection and it's power, and who spread the gospel by confessing the Lord Jesus, not PROFESSING. To declare openly or announce is PROFESSION. In order to CONFESS something, you really must be declaring something that others do not know or something that others may not know that you have first hand knowledge of. How can one confess that Jesus is Lord if he is not yet their lord? They don't know Jesus as Lord yet - they're not saved! Therefore, they cannot confess it. Furthermore,

1 John 4:15 - Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

2 John 1:7 - For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.


To understand that Jesus is the 'Son of God" is to understand that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh (see 1 Timothy 3:16), and to confess that requires full persuasion and understanding - something that many of the Jews of that day did not have. They knew that the Messiah would come, the Messiah being God on earth, but they did not believe that Jesus Christ was he. The humanity of Jesus Christ was the "Son", but his spirit was the Spirit of God, making Jesus the "Son of God." That is a mystery that must be revealed (see 1 Timothy 3:16), and once one understands that mystery, he can confess it in faith.

You can't just repeat the words "Jesus Christ is the Son of God" and assume that you have God's Spirit (1 John 4:15). God's Spirit is not given that way. God Spirit is received by faith (see Luke 11:13), oftentimes by transference in the laying on of hands from a Spirit-filled preacher to one who receives the word of God and believes (see Acts 8:18, 1 Timothy 4:14, Hebrews 6:2). Nowhere in the Bible does anyone receive the Holy Ghost by simply repeating a "sinner's prayer" and professing that Jesus Christ is Lord. Those who have God's Spirit are those with the witness within them that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh. These same are those who "confess" Christ.

"But what about verse 10? It says that confession is made unto salvation!"

Confession is part of God's plan of righteousness for his people. Anyone who is truly saved feels a burden within themselves to confess Christ to the world because the Spirit of God within them seeks to bear witness in the earth. That confession is part of our Christian work, and in order to remain righteous before God, we must do his work. This work is a natural byproduct of our faith (see James 2:14-26). Therefore, the saints' perpetual work as witnesses, an aspect of holiness (see Hebrews 12:14) keeps them in the will of God, thus making their confession "unto salvation".

There is more about Romans 10 that can be addressed, and will be addressed in a future work. For now, we at least understand that Romans 10:9-10 is not the Plan of Salvation for the sinner, so we must now search the scriptures to determine what IS the true Plan of Salvation.

What IS the Plan of Salvation?

God's one and only Plan of Salvation not only meets the Biblical criteria, but it fulfills the prophecies that Jesus Christ himself made about how the apostles would go forth and evangelize the world in his name.

Acts 2:28, the "altar call" of sorts given by the Apostle Peter on the Day of Pentecost, is God's Plan of Salvation for the unsaved. If you read the entire chapter, you will find that Peter preaches the first Christian sermon, and when the Jews who were there realized that they were guilty in the eyes of God, they asked Peter and the rest of the apostles what they had to do. Peter responded this way:

Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

He went on to tell them in verse 40 to "save themselves." If you read Acts 2:38-40 together, it becomes apparent that these were instructions for any and all sinners who wished to be saved:

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

I'm sure you have more questions about God's true Plan of Salvation, particularly about the correlation between Acts 2:38 and Matthew 28:19. I expound upon that, as well as Jesus' prophesies that are fulfilled in Acts 2:38 in God's Plan of Salvation. However, very simply put, Jesus Christ IS the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Matthew 28:19 is not a script; it's a prophetic word about who Jesus is. Every baptism that took place in the Bible was performed in the name of Jesus - look it up; you'll see that it's so. Furthermore, the terms "personal Lord and Savior" nor "the Trinity" are found in the Bible ANYWHERE. These are the teachings of man brought forth by what the Bible calls "doctrines of devils."

My friend, if you have not been baptized in Jesus' name and filled with the Holy Ghost, you are not yet saved. That's not my opinion, that's what the Bible says.

The Plan of Salvation - Sermons

Bishop David L. Ellis - The Name Jesus Part 1
by apostolicreturns | video info

34 ratings | 14,486 views
curated content from YouTube

Further Reading

Loading

More On Modalism

HOUSTON, TEXAS: Fr. Jeffrey Steenson Retakes Miter and Crosier
Pope Benedict XVI's much-anticipated Apostolic Constitution Anglicanorum Coetibus was finally becoming a reality in America. All the prayers that have gone into this moment were about to be fulfilled and brought to full fruition.
Nigeria can't break over Boko Haram –Fashola
Governor Fashola made these remarks while speaking as a guest at the annual Interdenominational Divine Service (IDDS), organized by Lagos State chapter of the Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN), held at the Apostolic Church International Convention ...
Vatican today — February 8, 2012
In this context he also noted the example set by the Holy Father in meeting with abuse victims during his apostolic trips. The prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith reiterated the fact that bishops and religious superiors must ...

What Does the Bible Say About? By Minister I.C. Jackson

Loading Fetching RSS feed... please stand by

Your Questions and Comments

submit
  • Reply
    Ben Oct 1, 2010 @ 2:05 am | delete
    Hello. To the author of this article: your words are well written in that they sound nice, but I cannot mince words...

    You are dead wrong in your theology. Through what I have to say, I hope you will realize the truth.

    ~~~~To begin with, Jesus did NOT refer to baptism in John 3:5. He did not use the word baptism, nothing in the context referred to baptism, and he COULD NOT HAVE MEANT BAPTISM because the time He said it was before His death, and therefore Nicodemus was under the Old Covenant, where baptism was not introduced. Do a little study on that.

    ~~~Secondly, Baptism (of water, mind you!) CANNOT be a requirement of Salvation. The proof text of this is Acts 10:47, "Then Peter said, "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." -- Can someone receive the Holy Spirit without saved? NO. Proof? Romans 8:9 "And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ." This proves that at the instant of salvation (which is what it means when we belong to Christ, correct?) we have the Holy Spirit of God right then and there. How then can you ,or anyone for that matter, say that water baptism comes before salvation, when the Apostle Peter makes plain that water baptism comes AFTER receiving the Holy Spirit (Spirit Baptism) and when the Apostle Paul clearly states that receiving the Holy Spirit and Salvation (belonging to Christ) occur at the same time?

    Also interesting to note is that for any Catholics reading this, the Apostle Peter (aka your first Pope!!!) just declared in Acts 10:47 that water baptism comes after the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and (and therefore after salvation itself!) See how easily God's word can debunk thousands of years of accumulated untruth? It's wonderful!

    I know you are able to see through these two verses that clearly the Holy Spirit and Salvation come simultaneously, and both of these come BEFORE water baptism. But whether you choose to accept this, or continue on in stubbornness, is between you and Almighty God. It's just my duty to make you aware of what you have obviously somehow missed in your years of theological training and in which you have undoubtedly led others astray as well.

    ~~~THIRD, and to rather quickly refute your main point by proving that Romans 10:9 is in fact the plan of salvation, I will use a handful of scriptures.

    First, let us look at Romans 10:9, "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

    Combine this with the truth of 1 Corinthians 12:3b "no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit."

    Now, you or other readers might be thinking that 1 Cor. 12:3 must be saying that one needs to have the Holy Spirit and therefore already have obtained eternal salvation of one's soul before being able to say that "Jesus is Lord."

    Consider, however, John 16:9 "When He [in context, it is speaking of the The Holy Spirit] comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me."

    So the Holy Spirit obviously works in the hearts of unbelievers to convict them of sin (and thereby repentance, leading to salvation.) This is not saying that they POSSESS the Spirit at that point, for that would contradict Romans 8:9. They do not belong to Christ yet. They are clearly described as unbelievers, there is no argument on that. The only interpretation of this verse, then, is that the Holy Spirit just works in the unbelieving world to convict people of sin and lead them to repentance even though they do not yet possess the spirit because they are still unbelievers.

    also consider Romans 2:4 "Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?"

    And 2 Corinthians 7:10 "Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret" This godly sorrow is the conviction that is brought by the Holy Spirit to the unbelieving world

    So, combining these verses, we can understand this: God, through His Holy Spirit leads unbelievers to repentance by His power of conviction, then at the instant of repentance, the Spirit leads the unbeliever to confess that Jesus is Lord

    and to "BELIEVE" in his heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, immediately after which the unbeliever is no longer unbelieving but believing and therefore saved, and consequently he has not only salvation but now

    POSSESSES the Holy Spirit, because he now belongs to Christ. These events occur simultaneously.

    Therefore Romans 10:9 does, in fact, outline salvation.

    I hope and pray that God will open the eyes of the readers of His word to the Truth (for He is the Truth, amen? And His word shall not return unto Him void! but that's a discussion for another time.) If anyone is confused by anything I've said, feel free to e-mail me. But first, ask for wisdom in faith and you shall receive it. (James 1:5) and praise the Lord, because He makes the Truth clear. "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth." (John 16:13a)

    In Christ,

    Ben
  • Reply
    Tommy_D Mar 28, 2011 @ 6:33 pm | delete
    Ben said "Jesus did NOT refer to baptism in John 3:5. He did not use the word baptism, nothing in the context referred to baptism, and he COULD NOT HAVE MEANT BAPTISM because the time He said it was before His death, and therefore Nicodemus was under the Old Covenant, where baptism was not introduced. Do a little study on that." I remind you Jesus also said under the old covenant in Mark 16:16 "he that believeth AND IS BAPTIZED shall be saved" and He actually used the word BAPTIZE, also in Mat 28:19.
    Ben also said "How then can you ,or anyone for that matter, say that water baptism comes before salvation, when the Apostle Peter makes plain that water baptism comes AFTER receiving the Holy Spirit "
    First, no one said baptism comes before salvation, we said it is a part of salvation.
    The fact is a person can receive the Holy Ghost before or after baptism, the real requirement to receiving the Holy Ghost is repentance No one can receive the Holy Ghost until they repent, after that they may receive it before or after baptism, but regardless of when the receive it they still must be baptized.
    You only pointed out acts 10:47 as your "proof" that baptism is after salvation and not a requirement, but never pointed out vs 48 that Peter COMMANDED them to be baptized BECAUSE they received the Holy Ghost, he knew baptism would complete their new birth experience, that's why he commanded them.
    Tom
  • Reply
    Tommy_D Mar 28, 2011 @ 6:41 pm | delete
    I forgot to add a couple scriptures for your reference, check out
    Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
    Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
    Acts 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
    Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
    Acts 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
    and definitely don't forget 1Peter 3:20-21 in the days of Noah,...eight SOULS WERE SAVED BY WATER....THE LIKE FIGURE even BAPTISM DOTH ALSO NOW SAVE US.
  • Reply
    VivekS Jul 7, 2010 @ 11:43 pm | delete
    solemn looking lens and some mind-blowing revealing stuffs to look at. Good study. I learned several things here. thanks so much for sharing
  • Reply
    Julian-Apostolic Pentecostal May 12, 2010 @ 10:11 pm | delete
    Jackson, I commend you on taking the time to explain the scriptures thoroughly so it can be explained by those who have grasped this as a plan of salvation. It has been made very clear and should leave no room for doubt. If anyone doesn't embrace it it's because their pride won't let them. Continue to do what you're doing. And I'll confess, I may just have to steal some of your references for a Bible Class!
  • Reply
    Lawrence Brown Jr. Oct 31, 2009 @ 11:33 pm | delete
    I recommend that you get the latest book on Romans 10:9, it is title The Romans Ten Nine Questions. In that book Romans 10:9 is explained very close to the way you explained it. It also goes back in history and shows that Romans 10:9 was not used as a conversion passage at all before the 1500's. Call 314-741-4871 and ask the author personal to send you a signed copy of that book.

    Reader
  • Reply
    Shepherdess Jul 2, 2009 @ 6:10 am | delete
    Awesome teaching!!!
    This is "The Way", I keep telling everybody that holiness is making a comeback.
    Back to the teachings of the Apostles. The latter day church since the 90's has been taught away from salvation. A master con game played on the church by the wicked one.
    But thanks be unto God we have men and women of God who will declare the riches of the truth returning Christ's bride to HIM again.
    Continue!
  • Reply
    AppalachianCountry Jun 24, 2009 @ 1:31 pm | delete
    Interesting lens. I'll have to research more myself. Thank-you for all the detail you gave.
  • Reply
    Mike May 13, 2009 @ 11:31 am | delete
    Tertullian writes extensively regarding Trinitarianism in one of his most important works "Apology". He coined the term tri-unitas in 177 AD. icjackson please get your church history correct.
  • Reply
    Ted Frazier Feb 24, 2009 @ 6:26 pm | in reply to icjackson | delete
    Ahhh, Okay. I didn't know you were dispensationalist. Is that the orthodox apostolic position?
    And btw, I think you forgot to answer my previous question just to clarify -
    It seems you saying that there are two "parts" of Christ - His humanity and His divinity - with the one part communicating with the other part. Yes or No?
  • Reply
    icjackson Feb 23, 2009 @ 11:58 pm | in reply to Ted Frazier | delete
    No problem, Ted :-)

    Technically, this dialogue is part of my job, so I'm happy to do it, now, and even in the future if you wish.

    So, concerning the thief on the cross next to Jesus, that's a very common question. The answer is "yes", and the reasons why are that

    1) He was Jewish
    2) The baptism in Jesus' name is a part of the New Covenant. The baptism in Jesus' name didn't take effect until after the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ

    The thief died under the Old Covenant, so being Jewish, his repentance, his recognizing that Jesus was the Messiah and his subsequent appeal to God (Jesus being God manifest in the flesh) was enough to grant him mercy and for God to save his soul.

    In this dispensation of the New Testament (New Covenant), we must adhere to the rules of the covenant, which involve repentance, baptism, and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit followed by a life of sanctification.

    Feel free to ask any more questions if you have them :-)
  • Reply
    Ted Frazier Feb 23, 2009 @ 5:59 pm | in reply to icjackson | delete
    Thanks for spending time to answer my questions. Although I may disagree with your answers because I have different presuppositions than you on the topic I really enjoy being able to understand your point of view better. One more question - was the thief on the cross saved?
  • Reply
    icjackson Feb 23, 2009 @ 3:06 pm | in reply to Ted Frazier | delete
    2) Concerning freak accidents before or during baptism (I actually get that a lot), remember this: in all things, God is sovereign, and if he were to allow such, it would be because that person had already incurred the wrath of God, and could therefore be unable to circumvent it (Proverbs 1:20-29, Isaiah 1:15, Jeremiah 14:12).

    Although I have never heard of anything like that happening EVER, I know that such a situation would be the wrath of God upon someone for sure. Furthermore, there are good Biblical examples of the opposite happening; someone who was seeking God and the baptism in Jesus' name being brought to them because they had no idea they needed it - Acts 8:26-40; 10:1-8, 17-48)
  • Reply
    icjackson Feb 23, 2009 @ 3:06 pm | in reply to Ted Frazier | delete
    2) Concerning freak accidents before or during baptism (I actually get that a lot), remember this: in all things, God is sovereign, and if he were to allow such, it would be because that person had already incurred the wrath of God, and could therefore be unable to circumvent it (Proverbs 1:20-29, Isaiah 1:15, Jeremiah 14:12).

    Although I have never heard of anything like that happening EVER, I know that such a situation would be the wrath of God upon someone for sure. Furthermore, there are good Biblical examples of the opposite happening; someone who was seeking God and the baptism in Jesus' name being brought to them because they had no idea they needed it - Acts 8:26-40; 10:1-8, 17-48)
  • Reply
    icjackson Feb 23, 2009 @ 3:00 pm | in reply to Ted Frazier | delete
    Hi Ted,

    Your points and questions are good, and I am happy to address them:

    1) Concerning being filled with the Holy Spirit before I was "saved", I see your logic, but I want to answer it with an expansion on the subject matter as a whole. None of us are technically "saved" as of yet, because the end has not yet come. We call ourselves "saved" because we posses what the Bible expresses as the "hope of salvation" and the "hope of glory"(1 Thessalonians 5:8, Colossians 1:27, Romans 8:23-25). The good news is that God's Spirit within us confirms both our salvation and our transgression (when we do), so we know even before the redemption if we are indeed saved or lost (Romans 8:14-17, Ephesians 1:12-14, 1 John 5:7-12)

    So, receiving the Spirit first simply led me to do everything else that I needed to do to be redeemed. The order is not as important as the completion. If you are in right standing with God before Christ's return, the order isn't so important.
  • Reply
    Ted Frazier Feb 23, 2009 @ 8:50 am | in reply to Gerry | delete
    Gerry,
    I, as a protestant, so indeed believe that communion is something that every believer MUST participate in. But I do not think that they are damned to hell until the moment they do it. It, like baptism, is an outward expression, a symbol, an analogy of what has already occurred in the person's spirit.
    There are many things in the new testament that say "if you don't ________, you are not a child of God." but they must be taken in context with the rest of the gospel otherwise they could be misconstrued to show that you, me, and Ms. Jackson all are going to hell.
  • Reply
    Ted Frazier Feb 23, 2009 @ 8:27 am | in reply to icjackson | delete
    you- "After I received the Holy Spirit by faith (Luke 11:13), I began to notice even more inconsistencies in the doctrine(s) that I had learned, and began to know that what I was doing wasn't working."

    So you're saying you received the Holy Spirit before you were saved. This makes no sense.
  • Reply
    Ted Frazier Feb 23, 2009 @ 8:24 am | delete
    So what in the hypothetical I discussed earlier let's say this new Christian gets taught about baptism and decides to get baptized then they slip on wet tile on their way to the baptismal and hit their head and die. What is their eternal state?
  • Reply
    Gerry Feb 22, 2009 @ 12:07 pm | delete
    Ivo
    Thank you for clearing up that point with Apostolics. It may be hard to believe but we Catholics believe the same thing or similar about the communion. You should not receive it without first having confessed your sins and it should be taken only if you truly believe in the Transubstantiation otherwise you are committing a mortal sin.The main difference is that we believe that this is also part of our salvation along with with baptism and repentance.My point I was trying to make is that many sects of protestants preach salvation only comes through repentance or just by being born again and there is so much more to it.[in reply to icjackson]
  • Reply
    icjackson Feb 21, 2009 @ 11:34 pm | in reply to Gerry | delete
    Apostolics are not actually protestants. Modalism (belief that GOd is one person and not three) existed before Catholic doctrine and continued in spite of it, so we are therefore not part of the protestant movement at all.

    We do, however, take the Lord's Supper and we do so very carefully and reverently. If you take it unworthily, you eat and drink unto your own damnation. Even so, the act of eating crackers or flatbread and drinking wine is not in and of itself the fullness of taking the Lord's body. It is an outward expression of an inward relationship - a "communion" between God and man.

    I'm pretty sure we agree on this. But Apostolic doctrine only means the doctrine of the apostles, so we do whatever the Bible says we should do. The church is built upon the prophets and the apostles, with Jesus Christ being the chief corner stone (Ephesians 2-19:20)
  • Reply
    icjackson Feb 21, 2009 @ 11:26 pm | in reply to Ted Frazier | delete
    Those of us who are filled with the Holy Ghost do essentially the same thing that Jesus did; although God lives within us, we still pray to God in heaven. It's a matter of relationship roles and order, really.
  • Reply
    icjackson Feb 21, 2009 @ 11:16 pm | in reply to Ted Frazier | delete
    Ha ha, it looks like I already started answering your second question!

    Acts 2:38 is clear in it's criteria, and it also agrees with Mark 16:16-18 and John 3:5-6 - the water baptism is a necessity. After I received the Holy Spirit by faith (Luke 11:13), I began to notice even more inconsistencies in the doctrine(s) that I had learned, and began to know that what I was doing wasn't working. I asked God to show me what I was missing, and not 3 days later, a friend searched the scriptures with me and it was as plain as day. So, I got re-baptized in the proper way, and have been living in the light ever since. Some who experience what I did refuse to follow the breadcrumbs, refuse to admit that their tradition may be insufficient. They essentially grieve the Spirit (Ephesians 4:30) and eventually turn their backs on God. They may still be religious, but when you refuse to obey the Spirit, you force God out (Hebrews 10:39). Salvation = obedience of all criteria.
  • Reply
    icjackson Feb 21, 2009 @ 10:17 pm | in reply to Ted Frazier | delete
    Hi Ted,

    Saying that you are married isn't the same as being married. You can't truthfully call yourself a married man/woman until you actually go through with it. Saying or professing that Jesus Christ is Lord is not the same as confessing it. If you have not obeyed God's plan of salvation you are not yet saved, which means that he is not yet your Lord, and saying that you are doesn't make it happen.

    Christ is THE Lord whether you confess it in this life or not (Phillipians 2:10-11), but in order for you to confess Christ, he has to be living within you and testifying on his own behalf (1 Corinthians 12:3, Romans 8:15).

    SO, as you can see, anyone who has not yet been filled with the Holy Spirit cannot confess Christ. Furthermore, anyone who truly has received God's Spirit wil be led by the Spirit to the Biblical plan of salvation (I was filled with the Spirit before I knew about the baptism in Jesus' name.)
  • Reply
    Gerry Feb 21, 2009 @ 2:09 pm | delete
    A quick definition

    Transubstantiation
    The complete change of the substance of bread and wine into the substance of Christ's body and blood by a validly ordained priest during the consecration at Mass, so that only the accidents of bread and wine remain. While the faith behind the term itself was already believed in apostolic times, the term itself was a later development. With the Eastern Fathers before the sixth century, the favored expression was meta-ousiosis, "change of being"; the Latin tradition coined the word transubstantiatio, "change of substance," which was incorporated into the creed of the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215. The Council of Trent, in defining the "wonderful and singular conversion of the whole substance of the wine into the blood" of Christ, added "which conversion the Catholic Church calls transubstantiation" (Denzinger 1652). after transubstantiation, the accidents of bread and wine do not inhere in any subject or substance whatever. Yet they are not make-b
  • Reply
    Gerry Feb 21, 2009 @ 2:07 pm | delete
    Of course we are not talking cannibalism what he is talking about is sharing in his spirit and life everlasting and taking what he says in faith. But he also gave us the formula for it at the last supper. This is my body eat it remembrance of me and this is my blood drink it remembrance of me. Without getting into beliefs of us Catholics who believe in transubstantiation many in the protestant faith do not even practice this basic remembrance and sharing that he has asked us to enter the kingdom of heaven all they preach is repentance and being born again and neglect the main message of john 6.22-70 and do not fool yourself it is something that cannot be dismissed he said it himself even at the cost of alienating everyone. Christ does not lie.To enter the kingdom you must practice it all but he also asks you to take that leap of faith.
  • Load More

Other Lenses By I.C. Jackson You Might Enjoy

Psalm 100: Enter His Gates With Thanksgiving, and His Courts With Praise
The entire Book of Psalms is beautiful, and it is arguably the most popular book of The Holy Bible; the 100th division of Psalms is one of the most well known and loved psalms in the entire collection. Most likely penned by King David, the song is short, but it reveals much about the character and...
The Gospel Of John - The Movie
The Gospel of John (2003) is a Biblically accurate and emotionally gripping depiction of the life of Jesus Christ based on The Gospel According to John. Directed by Philip Saville and narrated by Christopher Plummer, this cinematic blessing speaks to the soul of audiences who wish to gain a deeper...
Our Deepest Fear - Inspirational Poem by Marianne Williamson
This widely acclaimed poem is actually not a poem at all, but an excerpt from A Return To Love, a book by motivational speaker and author Marianne Williamson. The passage has such inspirational power that it is now a stand-alone mantra for a generation of exceptional individuals who wish to motivate...

by

icjackson

I'm a minister and a debt help and interest rate blogger. Interests: Minority business, lace wigs, baby sweaters, indonesia furniture manufacturer, men's... more »

Feeling creative? Create a Lens!